PM says Quebec's 'a nation within a united Canada'

[afro poppa]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20061122.wquebec1122/BNStory/National/home

I like what he has to say about this. I know some people here are from Quebec, I'd be interested to hear their thoughts on this issue. It seems it will never die..

[scottieking]

So Quebec is a nation inside of a united Canada eh?

Hmmmmm, could Stephen Harper be doing this to

a)steal momentum from the Liberal leadership race

b)piss off the Bloc

c)take focus off the APEC trip

d)stir shit up for shits and giggles

e)all of the above

ANSWER?

(I'd go with all of the above)

[phishtaper]

what's the problem with saying that Quebec is a nation? i think it is. ever been there? is Quebec the only nation in Canada? nah. so too are the Maritimes, Ontario, the West, and arguably, the Prairies. slice and dice them as you will (probably on geography, language and/or culture) or call them regions if that's more pallitable. but one cannot deny that there are very strong and distinct identities across this great land. i really don't think that's a bad thing.

[The Chameleon]

The can call it whatever they want as long as we can just shut uip about it and move on. Egnough already!

You're a nation, cool........next!

[phishtaper]

The can call it whatever they want as long as we can just shut uip about it and move on.

move on to what? dont you think the recognition of one or more distinct nations would have a profound impact on national governance? on Senate election, for example? its not as simple as "sure sure, next".

[Birdy]

i prefer to call it a profound headache!

it just seems like these words are meant to appease sovereigntists and nothing more.

it's kinda like 'here we go again! decade FOUR of empty promises!'.

resurfaced by politicians who for the most part rehack it all in the name of voter support.

[Kanada Kev]

hear hear

[The Chameleon]

The can call it whatever they want as long as we can just shut uip about it and move on.

move on to what? dont you think the recognition of one or more distinct nations would have a profound impact on national governance? on Senate election' date=' for example? its not as simple as "sure sure, next". [/quote']

What I am saying is ever few years the rest of the nation has to deal with the the distinct society/soveriegnty issue. It never gets resolved and it never goes away, much like herepes.

So I am saying let's just give them what they want so they fell secure happy and they stop bitchin'

Egnough already.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

The language could stoke all sorts of trouble, I bet.

It just strikes me as inaccurate, and calculated only to have emotional appeal. I mean, what is the definition of a nation, anyway? Clear boundaries, a military, a currency....

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Ack! Double threads!

[phishtaper]

i think it resurfaces again and again because it is a fundamental problem in this country that has never been fully addressed, let alone solved. yes, people are sick of it. yes, people would rather it go away. but, until we explictly recognize and work towards bridging the inherent cleavages in this country based largely on geographic region, language and culture, it will continue to resurface.

Quebec has legitimate concerns here, so do the Maritimes, the West, etc. to brush them off as a recurring nuisance is not only ineffective, its insulting. an elected and representative Senate would be the first step towards constitutional recognition of these identities within Canada. regardless of why the PM made these statements, or what he hopes to gain from doing so, the bottom line is that Quebec is a nation within Canada, and these tensions are unhealthy for the country as a whole.

[Birdy]

i agree that there is an actual issue here PT, i guess i just don't agree with what we all lean towards as a solution. an elected and representative senate should be an absolute MUST, not in the name of Quebec sovereignty but in the name of representation for alllllllllllllllllllll peoples. i feel kinda the same way about these sorts of things that i do about racial stereotyping. the longer we continue to make words for these kinds of things, the more they stay issues. what we need is a good solid change in attitude about what it means to be Canadian, Quebecois, native, female, etc., and an understanding that irregardless (that one's for you hamilton if you're looking! ), we're all akin and have been long before we had it in our heads to create all of these political divisions.

[The Chameleon]

Exactly! Until we give the natives thier due all the other whiners can wait in line.

If anyone deserves special treatment it's then!

[ollie]

It might be better if it was one thread.

The threads have been merged.

[timouse]

i got a call from Leger Marketing the night before last asking me:

1) which federal party i would vote for if an election were called tomorrow (greens!!!)

2) which of the liberal leadership candidates i would prefer to see get the job (bob rae)

3) who i liked better, iggy or bob rae (rae)

4) whether or not i thought the liberals had "rehabilitated themselves" after the sponsorship scandal (the whole thing was a red herring, so sure)

5) do you buy 5 year old or older cheddar cheese? (yes)

who commissions these things?

[Kanada Kev]

I HATE telephone marketing questions. THey always launch right into them.

I stop them and ask "what's in it for ME?"

It puzzles them and they usually ask what I mean.

I then explain that they are a private company making a buck off of information that I am supplying them. Relaying that information takes up my time. My time is valuable. I question why I'm not being compensated for my time and information. Silence. I ask if they are working for FREE while they are on the phone and of course they are not.

I try to do this as quickly as possible, so that I can get back to cooking/eating dinner or spending time with my wife and kids.

[d_rawk]

It just strikes me as inaccurate, and calculated only to have emotional appeal. I mean, what is the definition of a nation, anyway? Clear boundaries, a military, a currency....

I dunno, DEM. That's the definition of a nation-state alright, but I think that is the confusion. A nation state is a sovereign state dominated by a single nation. But it isn't the only model. A nation needn't have boundaries (or a military, or a currency) at all, and quite often does not. A clearer - but still imperfect - match for the political designation of "a nation" is "a people" rather than "a country".

We do already recognize Canada as being multi-national on some level. ie. "First Nations Peoples".

I'm personally comfortable with acknowledging "la nation Québécoise", but haven't been following closely enough to understand why the heck Harper pulled this out right now. Thanks for the insight, SugarMegs.

[edit:]

Interesting Canada-wide poll (forgive me linking to a CanWest site):

93% of Canadians agree that Canada is a nation, 65% agree that Aboriginals are a nation, 65% agree that Acadians are a nation, 48% agree that Quebec is a nation, 45% agree that the Metis are a nation, and 45% agree that Francophone Canadians (inside and outside Quebec) are a nation

Edited November 23, 2006 by Guest

[The Chameleon]

Fuck it then! I want me and my dreadlocked acid taking, pieced up, imporvised music bretheren to be declared a nation too...

It's only fair. I need to be recognized as distinct! Or else I'm going to fight to make my apartment it's own country and suceed from Canada.

Who's with me!

Edited November 23, 2006 by Guest

[ollie]

I then explain that they are a private company making a buck off of information that I am supplying them. Relaying that information takes up my time. My time is valuable. I question why I'm not being compensated for my time and information. Silence. I ask if they are working for FREE while they are on the phone and of course they are not.

Ha! That's the exact same asshole approach I employ when I get asked to take a survey. "How much for my time?"

I suppose I should post this link here as well.

[Kanada Kev]

We can become The United Nations of Canada

Might as well call Europe a nation comprised of nations.

[Birdy]

I then explain that they are a private company making a buck off of information that I am supplying them. Relaying that information takes up my time. My time is valuable. I question why I'm not being compensated for my time and information. Silence. I ask if they are working for FREE while they are on the phone and of course they are not.

Ha! That's the exact same asshole approach I employ when I get asked to take a survey. "How much for my time?"

I suppose I should post this link here as well.

meanies.

i chat it up with them most of the time. i've been there myself.

that and considering the kinds of communities that are supported by the call-centre economy i can't imagine that these people are exactly LOVING life making these phone calls. i'm sure they'd rather be a trillion different places themselves and are only sitting there, taking that abuse, making their lousy wage because they can't get a job anywhere else.

sure it interrupts your precious time in your precious life, but these are people just doing what they have to do to get by. at least give them that!

[d_rawk]

We can become The United Nations of Canada

Might as well call Europe a nation comprised of nations.

In a sense we are, and in a larger sense, that is sort of what the EU project is about.

Philip Resnick gave this all a pretty good treatment in 2005's "The European Roots of Canadian Identity".

There are probably better parts to quote from, but what the heck ...

"The development of Canadian national identity has, therefore, proven to be an imperfect process. It sorely disappoints many English-speaking Canadians and a certain number of their francophone and aboriginal counterparts as well, who dream of a version of the American E pluribus unum. For the Canadian national project, if that is what it is to be called, seems doomed never to be fully consummated. Canadians seem to be cursed with the fate of Sisyphus, rolling the stone of the perfect constitutional agreement up the hill, only to see it come crashing down again; hoping to find in a common past -- over which we disagree endlessly, for we have multiple pasts and diverging collective memories -- the stuff of future resultion; looking for a great Canadian hero or lawgiver -- a Solon or Lycurgus or Romulus or Aeneas -- to bind us together for all time.

Maybe we have been searching for the wrong model. Maybe it is Europe, both the Europe of today and of the past, that more closely mathes Canadian reality than the ever-present American model that many seek to emulate. For if we look across the Atlantic, we can find much that evokes the more complex national reality that is ours.

A number of European countries - the United Kingdom, Belgium, Spain spring to mind - encompass some of the same linguistic or cultural divisions that we think of as uniquely Canadian. After all, the Scots and Welsh do not see themselves as British in the same way as the English; nor do the Flemish and the Walloons - not to speak of the Bruxellois! - always see eye to eye; nor do the peripheral nationalities of Spain (the Basques, the Catalans, the Galegos) see national identity in quite the same way as other Spaniards. There are lessons in all this that we need to ponder.

[...]

Canadians, when they are so inclined, much like Europeans, can dream of a more perfect union. For the moment, and I believe for generations to come, they will have to make do with an imperfect mixture of languages and national identities that makes them who they are."

[ollie]

sure it interrupts your precious time in your precious life, but these are people just doing what they have to do to get by. at least give them that!

If a telemarketer has every right to make a living and call me then I have every right to react to that phone call as I choose. It is an intrusion afterall.

I'm rarely rude, unless pressed. And I enjoy the occasional protracted conversation when you get the right person on the other end of the line.

And there's nothing precious about my time. I just hit a bowl and could go for a good telemarketer right now.

[Birdy]

me too!

what are the odds?!

umm yah, not saying that that you don't have the 'right' to react, more that i think what KK was reacting to and what you responded to, doesn't really have anything to do with the guy on the other end of the phone who has to 'take it'... other than being the poor schmuck with the shitty job.

you even called it an 'asshole approach'!

(how this thread got here i have no idea.)

[ollie]

(how this thread got here i have no idea.)

I haven't even begun to think about whether I want to wrap my head around the possibility of another era of the Quebec question. I'm doing anything to not think about the thrust of this thread.

More Bill Hicks!