Underage musicians

[faoy]

Underage musicians can no longer jam in Alberta bars

Young Alberta performers who cut their musical teeth in bars and lounges will have to find somewhere else to play because the province's liquor commission has stopped issuing special youth permits.

Continued...

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Lame. There's nothing like a roomfull of drunks to let a burgeoning musician know they can pull it off.

[PalacePrincess]

isn't the drinking age in alberta only 18?

[boiler]

isn't the drinking age in alberta only 18?

yes

[Esau.]

I can't imagine what would make any parent think working in a bar kitchen at 12 years old is a sensible idea anyway. Although I imagine the bar owners (with kids) had some push in the province proposing the idea.

Shitty deal for the young musicians thats for sure, but I'd be surprised to see many bands with kids under 16 getting bar gigs to begin with.

isn't the drinking age in alberta only 18?

Yep. Thats why they decided "not to allow anyone under 18 to work in licensed establishments".

[PalacePrincess]

that was my point. the drinking age in alberta is already only 18 -- anyone with a birthday before june is still going to be in highschool when they turn 18. i don't think this is anything to be outraged about.

[Esau.]

What outrage are you speaking of?

I see parents not being happy over the province proposing to allow kids as young as twelve to be able work in the kitchens of bars, not kids playing music in bars.

Like I said in my other post I can't imagine what parent (aside from a bar owner) would think that its a good idea for a 12 or 13 year old to work in a bar.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

i saw this family of 5 the other day on Oprah who were up in arms about this as it was cutting out 75% of their household income (stay at home mom)

they made some good points

[PalacePrincess]

i'm not arguing with you. i agree with you. i am saying i don't think this is something for ANYONE to be outraged about. ("this" being the specific topic mentioned in the thread title, the underage muscians bit, not the 12 year old kitchen staff thing.). that article has kids in the bands complaining about this and the one guy's father "taking action".

His father is organizing a petition and has fired off faxes to the musical community to try to get the commission to change its ruling.

i think this rule is perfectly reasonable -- as i said, a big chunk of people turn 18 while they are still in high school, which is already very young. it's not like they have to wait until they are 30 to get in or anything (or even 21. hell, they don't even have to wait until they are 19).

the 12 or 13 year old bit is one line in the article, and on that topic, i completely agree with the province's backlash, and you. no, not many parents are going to agree with that, and there are better working environments than a bar for the 12 & 13 year olds that NEED jobs and whose parents' don't care where they work.

[Esau.]

Surprisingly, I don't watch Oprah.

Then again, I don't watch alot of TV aside from some video games or music DVDs so I guess I could easily miss all the hoopla going on about this.

I'm only talking about bars though, I guess if the law covers resturants also, seeing as they are also "licensed establishments", then I can agree it seems excessive.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

i don't either, & i doubt if she'd really give a flying fook about underage kitchen workers and musicians in alberta

[Esau.]

i'm not arguing with you. i agree with you. i am saying i don't think this is something for ANYONE to be outraged about. ("this" being the specific topic mentioned in the thread title, the underage muscians bit, not the 12 year old kitchen staff thing.)

Well, you sorta lost me on the arguing comment. I certianly didn't think you were. Less caffiene perhaps.

As for the topic, I read into it differently then you, thats all. I read more into what caused this to go down. To me, underage musicians are taking the friendly fire, so to speak, in all this. They weren't the reason for the change, but they get screwed by it.

[faoy]

I think it sucks for musicians. As an example Shania Twain got her start in bars when she was a child and those gigs developed her skills. I’m sure there have been many well known artists that have gone this route. Famous or not there are a lot of underage musicians trying make a move. I was playing in bars when I was 16 and I really don’t feel age should make a difference in the entertainment industry.

[AcidNintendoOrgan]

A "family band" is one thing. I think if the parent is actually up on stage with you, and is watching out for you (I'm sure there are some who are just getting hammered) that should be the grey area. When I was 13-14 years of age, "cutting my teeth"......I didn't ever think of the "bar" scene. Bars generally PAY real money to cover bands. I was just happy to be able to perform songs that were not popular covers at the time. So I "cut my teeth" in town halls and church basements on Friday and Saturday nights. Although I was playing Eric's Trip, Dinosaur Jr. and seBADoh covers (and some of what I am sure to be some of the worst indie rock originals ever!), so the bar scene would not have wanted me in my small town anyway. Whatever, I'm still happy to say that J Mascis taught me more about guitar playing than Bobby Baker (no offence, I'm sure he's a good guy) or some other dude who has his/her songs mangled by countless weekend rockers. There is something to be said too, for a parent who depends on their kids cute song and dance routine to make a living. Jean-Benet Ramsey(sp?) for instance.

[AcidNintendoOrgan]

I think it sucks for musicians. As an example Shania Twain got her start in bars when she was a child and those gigs developed her skills. I’m sure there have been many well known artists that have gone this route. Famous or not there are a lot of underage musicians trying make a move. I was playing in bars when I was 16 and I really don’t feel age should make a difference in the entertainment industry.

I assume by skills you mean her ability to meet dirty old men. Becuase had she not met dirty old Mutt Lang........she'd still be slutin' it up in Timmins.

[bradm]

There is something to be said too, for a parent who depends on their kids cute song and dance routine to make a living. Jean-Benet Ramsey(sp?) for instance.

Hold on a minute. While I find the whole concept of child beauty pageants disgusting, the Ramseys were wealthy (beyond anything pageant winnings could provide) long before they had JonBenet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bennett_Ramsey

John Ramsey's net worth was reported at $6.4 million as of May 1, 1996. In 1989, late in his military career, he formed the Advanced Product Group, one of three companies that merged to become Access Graphics. After mandatory military retirement, he became president and chief executive officer of Access Graphics, a computer services company and a subsidiary of Lockheed Martin. In 1996, Access Graphics grossed over $1 billion, and he was named "Entrepreneur of the Year" by the Boulder Chamber of Commerce.

See also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonbenet_Ramsey

Aloha,

Brad

[faoy]

I think it sucks for musicians. As an example Shania Twain got her start in bars when she was a child and those gigs developed her skills. I’m sure there have been many well known artists that have gone this route. Famous or not there are a lot of underage musicians trying make a move. I was playing in bars when I was 16 and I really don’t feel age should make a difference in the entertainment industry.

I assume by skills you mean her ability to meet dirty old men. Becuase had she not met dirty old Mutt Lang........she'd still be slutin' it up in Timmins.

Of course ... what was I thinking. You're right she doesn't have any talent. :confused:

[StaggerLee]

This is a drag for young Albertan musicians for sure. I started playing bars when I was 16 thanks to those permits and it was a great experience for me, not to mention a source of income. We've got other laws to deal with parents who exploit their children's talents, and I can't imagine that it's a widespread problem anyway.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

My paternal grandfather was apparently quite a solid musician as a kid, so much so that in his teens, his parents, who had brought the family over from Ireland in the 20s, farmed him out as a musician to bars around Toronto to play and bring in some money. Apparently he came to hate it so much, being treated like an "organ grinder's monkey" as he called it, that he gave up music for good. I never even knew he could play until I heard this story some ten years after he'd died (to this day I wish I could have known and talked to him about his experiences).

So maybe this move will prevent some kid from giving up on music from his experiences in seedy bars?

That's reaching. It's still a dumb move on the Alta. gov't's part.

[Spudly]

Greetings folks, periodic west coast lurker here...

On the topic, you should check out this all improv fusion quartet from Vancouver called iDeoGram featuring 15 year old phenom Kai Basanta on drums. This kid is amazing, a consumate professional, and gifted beyond belief, a mini Buddy Rich...and he's in GRADE 9!

Kai's played a couple of show's with my band (baked potato) and it's been hilarious dealing with bar staff trying to get this kid into the clubs.

check him out....

Apparently he's allowed to be in the bar...but has to be either walking to or from the stage, if he's not performing. Kai is going to be famous one day.

Taboot the bass player, Cole, is 18 years old, plays a 5 string fretless and is SICK. Kai's brother Adam is 22 and is a sick fusion shredder as well.

Listen to these guys at their myspace page.

They don't have "songs" per se...they don't practice. They just improv their shows. All unrehearsed. SICK.

[Spudly]

....here's a pic that his mom took of him playing with us a few months back...

(our Zehya is going to be a Mom next week sometime.... )

[Spudly]

PS - Luke would hate my band too. :confused: