Montreal NYE= best new years ever.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

obviously TIESTO isn't bringing mind blowing, ground breaking electronica that you electro snobs can talk up..... thats not the point.

chameleon project...you're a homophobe, a rasict, a music snob, and a moron.

GREASY GINO's? gay orgies? fak aff.

lets get the point...

TIESTO played the bell centre from 8am-11am and brought the fucking energy...that same night he played new years eve in Boston.. i don't care if its not to your liking...thats cool... you can go see your obscure Drum and Bass dj's in some rotten basement filth hole... and talk up how ground breaking they are....TIESTO is a power house...and there is alot to be said about that....and he brings the hotties out. regardless of the stigma around him... i had a blast.

and secondtube...the drugs were incredible.

[NewRider]

TIESTO played the bell centre from 8am-11am and brought the fucking energy

so you had to bring your OWN lube and GHB?!?! OUCH!!!

[The Chameleon]

obviously TIESTO isn't bringing mind blowing, ground breaking electronica that you electro snobs can talk up..... thats not the point.

chameleon project...you're a homophobe, a rasict, a music snob, and a moron.

GREASY GINO's? gay orgies? fak aff.

lets get the point...

TIESTO played the bell centre from 8am-11am and brought the fucking energy...that same night he played new years eve in Boston.. i don't care if its not to your liking...thats cool... you can go see your obscure Drum and Bass dj's in some rotten basement filth hole... and talk up how ground breaking they are....TIESTO is a power house...and there is alot to be said about that....and he brings the hotties out. regardless of the stigma around him... i had a blast.

and secondtube...the drugs were incredible.

I am thrilled you ha a great time Dima. Certainly that is what matters. But for the record neither me or any members of the Chameleon Project are racists, homophobes or morons.

To each his own, and in terms of the gay greasy gino contingent, I know as I have witnessed 3 Tiesto performances. 2 in Miami and one in New york and that was a huge part of the crowd. I am glad you avoided this.

I wish you well on your trance journey young lad. Do a glow stick show for me.....

hahahahaa......

P.S. Fluffhead77 is right if trance is what you dig check out Spongle, they're the best of the bunch.

also a a peacemaking gesture I offer you this....could be your new avatar..

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest

[NewRider]

I'm gonna stand up and say here that Josh "The Chameleon" is NO WAY a racist or homophobe. He's a stand up guy who has helped me out in the past in ways no one would ever even think about helping there fellow man. You're a dickweed Dima and maybe some people on here (especially myself) suffer from Dickweedphobia. So go grab some "K" and go set off a car alarm and dance around it for 8-10 hours. DICKWEED!

Didn't someone post a thread on here a while ago about how nice people are on here?

***NewRider pulls his collar in a comical fashion***

[d_rawk]

I don't know that I've ever met Chameleon or dimafleck. FWIW, I take your assurance that Josh isn't a racist or a homophobe to heart, and trust that's the truth of it. Unfortunately, "homo trance" has all the charm and sublety of "nigger beats" -- and similar implications and difficulties for both the speaker and the hearer.

meggo is adorably sensitive about such things, and much to her credit, she lives this stuff out in the trenches and fights seemingly impossible fights in favour of the disenfranchised. She chafes at language like that, so do I, and so - apparently - does dima. I don't know if you two have pre-existing heat that predates this thread, and maybe that has something to do with the strength of your reaction. But for those of us who don't know The Chameleon, using language that unapologetically disparages the entirety of "an other" leads to pretty obvious conclusions of the same.

Josh is probably neither a racist nor a homophobe. But he speaks like one. I'd think our confusion might be forgivable, given all that.

But it seems like this discussion happens over and over again on this forum. I wonder if there is any value in pursuing it all over again.

[FunkyBeats]

Well, Meggo, I wasn't talking about "all kinds of shows" and I disagree that the word "sometimes" implies "frequently" but I have witnessed such scenes in both Toronto and Miami Beach on more than one occasion (I assume that you do not use the mens washroom). I was wrong to say that the style of music causes the scene, rather it is a part of the scene and I guess the terminology used to describe it has incorporated this. It's not my term and I don't use this term. You asked for a description and I guess mine was insensitive. That was not intentional and if I hurt you or anyone else, I am sorry.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

Say what you want…but the terms were used by Chameloen

"Homotrance or gay-trance or euro-gay-homo-..."

as was

"(usually these dudes are waaaay in t he closet). This brand of trance is also played at every gay pride parade."

so were

Greasy Gino's muscle heads on GHB and their equally greasy Gina girlfriends "

If I was either gay or Italian I’d think you’re an ignorant prick.

All that screams of racism and homophobic tendencies....or being very inarticulate to express your opinions effectively. i'll assume the latter for your benefit.

and as far as this

"To each his own, and in terms of the gay greasy gino contingent, I know as I have witnessed 3 Tiesto performances. 2 in Miami and one in New york and that was a huge part of the crowd. I am glad you avoided this."

believe me, there were many shirtless, muscle bound gay dudes there in spandex short shorts...and there were many spikey haired clubbers...

but i'm niether a homophobe, or a rasist, and most importantly, as long as the people around me are polite, full of life and energy... i manage to have a good time... so i didn't avoid, whatever it is you're talking about.. you should try it sometime....a lot less things to "avoid"

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest

[NewRider]

so were Greasy Gino's muscle heads on GHB and their equally greasy Gina girlfriends "

Re-reading this I do find it offensive. I think it was greasy gino jewish muscle heads on GHB there!

RESPECT THE CULTURES YO!

[Cully]

Dima,

I find this post to be very offensive (not that it surprises me at all)

Sometimes I think that you should be banned from this board!!

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

i may be jewish, and i may have been on GHB..... BUT i'm not very muscular.

[NewRider]

Sometimes I think that you should be banned from this board!!

pfffftt... c'mon Cully, then what would I do for fun?!?!

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

i'm the best thing this board has going.

[NewRider]

whatever you say dimafart

[The Chameleon]

Man people on this board are waaaaaay tooo sensitive.

Fuck it's just trance.

And for the record the first time I heard the term homo-trance it was used by one of my gay friends to describe the genre. Secondly the term Gino has nothing to do with Italians per say. Hell I've met Korean, Polish and Portuguese Ginos. It's a style people try to emulate that makes them Ginos. Just go Mississauga and you'll see what I mean. Look for the dudes in Honda Civics with skirt kits and massive tailpipes and neon lights under their cars.

Either way these terms are simply hallmarks to identify a style of Trance. Nothing more, nothing less.

And as I said previously that fact that Dima had a good time is what matters. I was simply giving my 2 cents, which I will now take off the table as it seems to be oh-so upsetting to y'all.

Out.

P.S. Toughen up a little. The world is a big bad place.

Edited January 5, 2007 by Guest

[Cully]

Maybe I don't want to toughen up a little.

[deranger]

this thread is hilarious and soooo gay.

[Super Freak]

It's funny how certain people can be cocky instigators but when someone else teeters off the PC balance beam they get all "ooo, I can't believe you said that..."

if it was about hate, I can dig it but most of this shit is just peoples choice of verbal expression...everyone's different.

This PC shit gets boring after awhile.

[meggo]

am i a cocky instigator? i thought that was mcgarnical...

and you're right, everybody's choice of verbal expression is different.

so, if my choice of verbal expression were to be, 'hey, look at those niggers holding hands!' would that be okay, too?

i'm sorry if the 'PC shit gets boring.' that's a real shame.

anyway, this was not meant to be a fight. just trying to make a point, and chameleon and i have already chatted it out in the PMs.

[MamaPink]

On the way home from New Years, Sirius Satellite Radio had Palace Princess and I raving into the light. We pretended we were liquid and played with an invisible sphere in complete unison with some phat beats provided by Orbital. It was magical.

PS - don't eat the red pills.

[The Chameleon]

I offer this as a peace offering:

Tiesto live in 2004

Enjoy this politically correct, non- denominational, non-European, sexual orientation neutral, trace set...

[meggo]

hah...

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

It's funny how certain people can be cocky instigators but when someone else teeters off the PC balance beam they get all "ooo, I can't believe you said that..."

if it was about hate, I can dig it but most of this shit is just peoples choice of verbal expression...everyone's different.

This PC shit gets boring after awhile.

you sir are a racist.

[Cully]

I love Tiesto!!! Amazing stuff!!!

[d_rawk]

It's funny how certain people can be cocky instigators but when someone else teeters off the PC balance beam they get all "ooo, I can't believe you said that..."

I think it's another way of being a cocky instigator, actually. It's a gloves off rebellion against very strong pre-existing social currents, and a challenge to take into account the fact that language is highly politicized and has very real political and cultural consequences, whether you want it to or not. The debate might get old and annoying, but it is at least consistent.

It isn't about people being thin skinned, and the point isn't who is or who is not offended. Neither is the point the character (racist or not racist, homophobe or not homphobe, anti-semite or not anti-semite) of the speaker. The point is that words have intended meaning, yes, and also effects that are quite independent of what the speaker intended.

Language is the primary vehicle by which stereotype and prejudice replicates itself, regardless of the intent of the speaker. It is a rare thing for someone to sit someone else down and say - "Let me tell you about the jews, and their insidious wicked ways". No. People 'learn' that Jews are cheap and looking to screw you over given the chance because of the way they are spoken about, and most often it isn't what the speaker intended for the listener to get out of the exchange at all. When you affirm one truth ("I was ripped off") by tying it to a seperate truth claim ("Jews are thrifty thieves") which is what you are doing when you say something like "I got totally jewed on those tickets", you carry a prejudice and hatred forward from yesterday into today. This is why it rings so hollow when someone responds with "toughen up, I'm not an anti-semite, it's just a figure of speech". It doesn't matter whether or not you are an anti-semite. It is exactly because the stereotypes are woven into the fabric of the language that they persist. The consequence of allowing it to remain woven into the fabric of the language has very real consequences for people living very real lives. It is willfull participation in an evil.

Likewise the fact that young boys learn very early on that it is a terrible thing to be a fag, and a very dangerous thing at that, often before they are even exactly sure what it really means to be a fag, or gay, or a homo, or whatever other words we use slanderously. The blanks get filled in later, but the affirmation that it is a horrible shameful thing indeed gets there first.

This is also why the "there are bigger problems to worry about" arguement is so naive. Those who have spent some time worrying about or fighting those bigger fights pretty quickly come to realize that language is so often precisely exactly how those bigger problems got to be so damn big in the first place. And it is why for every fire that gets put out, two others start blazing just as quickly.

It isn't about being offensive (although general decency might invite you to take that into account, for seperate reasons), it isn't about being 'impolite', and it isn't about the beliefs or non-beliefs of the utterer. It's a challenge to acknowledge the ways these things give strength and new life to hatreds so prominent that they have become idioms even in the very way that we communicate with each other. It's an invitation to assess the degree to which you want to remain a willing participant in real fucking evil. It's not just irresponsible, it's downright scandalous.

Chameleon's "homo-trance" or "ginos" didn't personally offend me. And him throwing those two things out casually and flippantly aren't all of that. But they are a part of the totality of all of that, which is why they need to be confronted when the happen. The totality is but the sum of its parts after all, however benign those parts might appear in isolation. It is because these things can be so casual, and because they tend to be so benign appearing and generally inoffensive on their own that they become so dangerous as they work themselves into our interactions with each other.

If they were more offensive, if they all felt like a kick in the stomach, we'd be a lot safer from them.

Language shapes us as much as it reflects us. Individually, in ways, but so much more collectively.

It isn't about being thin skinned or too sensitive.

[i swear I meant to leave this all alone ... this is what happens, sometimes, when I can't sleep. Apologies, because I agree that the this all has gotten so very, very, very old. But being tired of it isn't justification enough to let it go.]

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

thats really well written....

props.