AD Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 Kung wrote 'Allan Woody' in his post on the Exclaim message board as well, Uh-Oh... If we're going to get into people's spelling habits and relating that to their music appreciation (quite a stretch... very few people here can spell at all...) then this thread has become ridiculous. I love a properly spelled word, and hate a poorly-spelled one, but I don't discount people's arguments because they spell a word wrong. That's just looking for an excuse to disagree. I'm going to work now. I'm guessing they'll be more for me to read here tonight... AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 All-in-all, I'm pleased to read on this thread how passionate everyone is about The Mule's music. The fact that The Mule's music touches so many people so deeply pleases me. Sure their music is not for everyone. They don't play a " hip " brand of music. Sure their ballads have a familiar formula to them. Sure their sound and style isn't very original and in today's musical climate, even a little dated - classic and blues rock to their core. And sure they appeal to mainly a male audience, as Booche said to me before the Toronto concert: " Chicks don't dig The Mule ". But what should please everyone on this thread is that, essentially, today's snobby and elitist music publications must be shocked to see that classic rock still exists with a huge, distinct and unpredictable fan base; and " certain " publications are forced to acknowledge jam-bands like The Mule's influence and popularity in the music community. Give Sean some credit. At least he got his review of this guy-dominated, dinosaur-rock band's Opera House concert printed. ( Note: both Toronto entertainment weekly's Now and Eye Magazines' did not review The Mule concert, even though both had features of Gov't Mule a week before the Toronto show ). Go figure? So, the next time a Phish concert gets trashed in The Toronto Sun ( and oh they will - they sure will ), or The String Cheese Incident play to a sold-out Phoenix Concert Hall with no acknowledgement by journalists, just sit back and enjoy the fact that editors and music critics everywhere must be cringing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 I've enjoyed Sean Palmerston's reviews and writings for VIEW magazine for ages, even though I don't always concur with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briguy Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 He made a generalization he shouldn’t have. He’ll be delighted by the number of Mule fans replying and will be glad to see he was wrong, really! I don’t always agree with what he says, but he is only trying to help. Hopefully the response he’s receiving towards his comments on ‘jam-heads’ will prove to him that the local scene is very passionate and dedicated. Only good can come out this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted March 4, 2003 Report Share Posted March 4, 2003 I think the criticism levelled at the review was perhaps a bit harsh....but....maybe the author will think twice next time about offering a critique on the mental processes of particular audience members, which really shouldn't get much mention in a concert review, or at least one that short in length (IMO). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by NewRider: I think it is just poor journalism to go to a concert and make comments and judgement on the crowd. It would be like me going to write a review of a Rancid concert and continuously mentioning how violent people were in the "mosh pit". Or going to a Rolling Stones concert and commenting on how everyone was sleeping the whole time. It makes me think that the reviewer didn't understand the music so they just decided to review the audiance, much like the Toronto Sun does when Phish comes up here.But isn't the crowd part of the concert? I agree that it is wrong to make assumptions or judgements about the intelligence of the crowd or what its members might be thinking, but surely it *is* relevant to report on how a crowd behaves, or how they react to the performance, so long as this aspect is a *part* of the review, and not the main focus of it (hmmm... that's a rather long sentence, isn't it?). Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 quote:Originally posted by kung: ... they did a whole feature on improvisation in Montreal and Ottawa I believe a few months back and it's all these avant garde bozos that play in the palace Du Maurier built.Why is it wrong to write about " avant garde bozos"? First of all, if it's improvisational music that they are playing, then it fits the topic that the paper is writing about. Secondly, aren't these "bozos" the same people who often push music in new and exciting directions? Wasn't John Cage " avant garde"? What about Zappa? For that matter, many people regarded the Dead as being avant garde in their exploratory jams. Third, since a frequent complaint about Exclaim! is that they write too much about whatever is currently "hip", I would have thought that an article on avant garde music would have been refreshing, since that is not a particularly hip form of music (although I must admit to not having personally read the article in question). This reminds me of all of the complaints that I heard about Dinner Is Ruined opening up for Oysterhead in Toronto. Now *they* were improvisational - not that I *loved* it or anything, but it was *interesting*, which is more than I can say for a lot of other bands. Being open to hearing improvisational material means being open to hearing new things, not just recycled familiar influences extended jamming. Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted March 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I probably agree with the last point best but also cause it's fresh in my mind. I think what's kind of getting lost is that it's not so much Sean I have the gripe with. In fact I've said far (far? far?) more inflammatory things. I just don't know why the editors who are very professional and in fact knowledgable let that slip. You wouldn't for instance see a comment in a Rheostatics review that said "I felt like everybody didn't really know what to do with themselves but stand around and like cogniscent". Or a Guided By Voices review that reads "the fans were crammed into the stage like lemmings waiting to go off a cliff and I couldn't help but think if the front row went over the rest would likely follow. Or "Do you think Buck 65, or any turntablist for that matter likes that people stand dead still like bowling pins staring at him like an infomercial". That kind of comment is just extraneous and doesn't add anything to the piece. In fact it was such a short piece that real estate comes at high value and he could have used the space to say eighteen million other relevant things. Instead he played into the snicker snicker and it slides because that sort of thing washes when 'jam' anything is involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewRider Posted March 5, 2003 Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 I think the audiance does have a lot to do with the show. I have read reviews of Phish shows in different states where it comments on things people do in the lot and in the shows but doesn't pass judgement about it. The writer doesn't even write in a manner that would make what the crowd does sound even remotely strange. Toronto audiances are amongst the worst worldwide. Ask any musician that has toured worldwide extensively, it seems that a lot of people at Toronto shows attend to say they went there and not to actually BE there. I'm not talking about small jam shows like nero and Caution Jam shows I mean big shows. For most major touring acts, Toronto audiances are harder to win over than anywhere else. I think this fact has made a lot of area entertainment journalists cynical about audiances in and around Toronto. I've read reviews of Tragically Hip concerts in the last 2 years where the "journalist" complains half the article about how drunk people in their early 20's were around them. I just think it's crappy journalism that points out the obvious, of course there were drunk, young people there... it's a Tragically Hip concert. Of course there were people with mohawks there it was a NOFX concert, or of course there were people with "shaggy beards" "smoking marijuana" there..... it was a Gov't Mule concert!!! They need to listen to the music, the way the band plays and maybe even the effect that had on the crowd. This is all I EVER want to read in a review of a show, I couldn't care less about somebodys personal experience they had at the show. We are all there for the music, lets review THE MUSIC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted March 5, 2003 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2003 The audience is relevant but even on that score to my mind there were relatively few 'heads' there as there were blue collar dudes, older industry guys and their mamas, older wannabe A Bros. guys and their mamas, guys with licensed Harley paraphenalia, more guys. 'I found myself wondering whether half these people would be able to recall the name of even two or three songs" And it wasn't the heads I was worried about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Space Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 So if you yourself were wondering, then maybe Mr Palmerston brought up a good point in his article, no? Who are we to say which people at the show he was discussing? I think you are on the same side of the fence he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven_Space Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 I know this guy. He was at the Deisel Dog show Friday night in Hamilton. Maybe you guys should go kick his ass at Drums & Tuba on Tuesday at pepper jacks or at least ask him to defend his position on what he wrote. Or maybe invite him to post here to see why he said what he did. Seems to me he writes a lot about the scene, in a national paper, no? Maybe he could be used to futher this scene... Saint Stephen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 Hey all! I've been this thread from the start, I haven't really thought of anything much to add myself, except I keep hearing this verse from the Sloan song "Coax Me" in my head: If I drink concentrated OJ Can I think Consolidated's okay? It's not the band I hate, it's their fans Three cans of water perverts me That's all, carry on! - Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted March 6, 2003 Report Share Posted March 6, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Raven_Space: Seems to me he writes a lot about the scene, in a national paper, no? Maybe he could be used to futher this scene...It's not the responsibility of an independent journalist to "further" any scene. Their job is to call it as they see it. I don't disagree with everything he wrote, based on years of attending shows, although I do think it was extraneous to the article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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