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Ollie what do you think of the lansdowne live proposal as a whole?

Feel free to look beyond the stadium to the rest of the development when answering as well.

Oh, I thought you wanted fair criticism.

Well Ollie, you ignored my fair criticism, responded to a turn of phrase about a coat of paint, then asked me to be more fair in my criticism. I thought I'd post some real issues for you.

Here is what I think. I also thought this last night when I originally posted it. Here are some of my thoughts. If I've got any facts wrong, please do correct them. Football / Stadium: I'm indifferent to a CFL franchise. Football-watchin' is fun, but it has failed here twice before. All this other development is just a foot in the door to secure city funding for the Renegades / Roughriders / whatever they'll be called. I think a stadium is important and needed (if not for CFL then for events similar to the Stones show, U20 World Cup, Francophonie Games, etc) , but I don't think we should pay to refurbish Frank Clair - it's a dump (as is the Civic Centre Arena). They should build a proper new stadium close to proper transit (which Ottawa doesn't have). Of course there is no money to do this. (Zero means 10%). I heard somewhere that it cost $60 million to build BMO Field in Toronto, yet the Lansdowne Live bid calls for $113 million to refurbish Frank Clair. What the hell? If someone is going to spend all kinds of money on this site, do it up right - rip the stadium down and build something beautiful and functional, and if you can do it for cheaper, great! Also, football didn't ever make money in Ottawa. Retail: If Lansdowne Live is going to be a tourist spot / regional draw (like all the literature touts), a supermarket and a movie theatre are not going to cut it. The Mayfair is across the canal, there are multiple screens at World Exchange, South Keys, and Rideau Centre, not to mention many more outside the core. There are already two supermarkets in the Glebe and Old Ottawa South, not to mention specialty stores such as the Meat Market, Kardish Foods, Wild Oat, Nicastro's, Brioche, Serious Cheese, Ottawa Farmer's Market etc... These stores and the Mayfair may survive, but it sure doesn't seem like a fair fight. If retail is so badly needed (like the supporters say) why isn't the retail coming here regardless of OSEG? Isn't that what free market capitalism is all about? The OSEG gets the 10 acres for retail rent-free for 30 years while receiving all the revenue from the site (that's the whole site). Money-stuff: Like already said, OSEG gets this land rent-free for 30 years plus all revenue, plus the city pays for the stadium upgrades and the parking garage (while giving all the proceeds to the OSEG). OSEG can walk away after 5 years and leave the city with the tab. After the 30 years, OSEG is still first in line for their portion of revenues. Plus they're not going to make much from property taxes on the site. Taxpayers should benefit first, not the developers. Aesthetics: From what I've seen in the artist renditions, it's an ugly site. We live in a national capital - the plans look nothing like a source of pride for the city / country / neighbourhood. Everything just needs to be better. The Aberdeen Pavilion could be an amazing market, but instead they want to partition it for restaurants and open space. Other capitals and major cities have landmark developments in sites similar to Lansdowne - an often quoted example is Granville Island in Vancouver. I have no idea if that's turned out to be good for the city, but the multiple times I've been there when visiting Vancouver I've had a good time and spent money. Parking and Residential: They want to build a $13 million parking garage (city pays, OSEG gets all revenue for 30 years). Nothing specific to not-like here. I just don't like it in general. Also I don't think residential dwellings should be on this site. City Council: What a bunch of jokers. They're voting today to see if they as a whole agree with the plan in principle. Yet there is still quite a bit unknown about this proposal that should be taken into account before any such vote. There is a heritage study to be done about proposed changes to the Aberdeen Pavilion, a traffic study, the issue of the market impact in on Glebe merchants hasn't been figured out (there were two reports, with wildly different conclusions). The Good Things: The Farmers' Market needs a permanent home, and if it looked nice, was indoor and was functional that would be great. Use the St. Lawrence Market, the Kitchener Farmer's Market or something similar as a starting point. A concert site would be nice, but it would be a 'if you build it they might come' gambit. I'd support that though, I like music. I think it would have made a great site for the new public library, but it's not accessible to much transit so screw that. At least people are talking about this. This is off the top of my head... If I think of more I'll post it.

Bouche, don't be ludicrous.

Jesus. I think I'd rather debate this at city council than here. At least most of them understand some of the proposal.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying tear the place down and start over. If costs the same fine. If it costs less, even better. You didn't read what I wrote yesterday and you obviously aren't familiar with the proposal, so why are you arguing this?

I'm sure there are engineers, electricians, event coordinators, employees, plumbers who would have an even more important list than the cosmetic things I mentioned. Did you bother reading what I wrote yesterday? They want to spend $113 million to renovate when at the same time BMO Field in toronto cost just $62 million? Would you rather have a new modern stadium or a renovated eyesore disfunctional piece of crap for twice the price? Tell me what's ludicrous again, please.

Are you serious? It's ugly. It's uncomfortable the washrooms are gross the ramps are stupid the concessions suck Part of it is missing all of that applies to the arena and salons underneath I could go on bit like I said, have work to do

Why doesn't someone go look at the plans and report back here? I've done enough for now and am fairly busy at work.

Ooooo wow, new coat of paint on a piece of shit stadium. An Apple Store! Whole Foods! A toy store! What amazing vision these idiots have!!! Ottawa will be the pride of all of Orleans!!

Well if I'm right, it's never been in the proposal to build a new stadium. The proposal has always been to renovate the current stadium.

They aren't building a new stadium.

Here is the city's press release tonight about Lansdowne. It is indeed just a conditional approval, pending a whole bunch of things. City Council today voted to conditionally proceed with the Lansdowne Partnership Plan (LPP). The vote followed a three-day special City Council meeting, which provided residents and public delegations with yet another opportunity to share their views and opinions on the future of Lansdowne Park. “Today’s vote in favour of the Lansdowne Partnership Plan allows the City and its partners to start working to return the neglected site to its former glory,†said Mayor Larry O’Brien. “The citizens of Ottawa can now look forward to enjoying enhanced green space, a year-round Farmers’ Market, and professional sports as just some of the many features that will restore this historic City property.†Approval of the plan is conditional upon the following items: Completion of a final review of financial projections, including analysis by the Office of the Auditor General. Completion of transportation studies and supporting Transportation Demand Management plans to determine whether or not traffic and parking can be reasonably accommodated, and that the transportation strategy will work as anticipated. Establish a Strategic Design Review and Advisory Panel for the development of a Master Site Plan for Lansdowne Revitalization. Execute an independent third-party peer review of the two different market studies from Ottawa Sports and Entertainment Group (OSEG) and the Bank Street BIA to determine whether or not the commercial plan is viable, and that retail is complementary and supportive of the existing Bank Street retail business community. Immediately initiate a Request for Expressions of Interest for the construction and operation of a Trade and Consumer Show facility in Ottawa. Initiate a competition for the design of the “front yard†including the Ottawa Farmers’ Market, Horticultural Building and the Aberdeen Pavilion and that the design competition include a detailed public consultation process, in partnership with the National Capital Commission and Parks Canada, on the proposed redevelopment of the “front yard.†Assisting the Central Canada Exhibition Association (CCEA) in completing the business and logistical plans necessary for the CCEA’s move to a new location on Albion Road following the exhibition in 2010. “Council’s direction means that staff and OSEG will now concentrate their efforts on negotiating a project agreement framework and on completing the additional work required to assist Council in its decision regarding the LPP,†said City Manager Kent Kirkpatrick. “This includes evaluating the business terms, developing the corporate governance, refining the development concept, completing agreements with third parties and developing a detailed public consultation process with the National Capital Commission (NCC) and Parks Canada on the proposed redevelopment of the front lawn.†In June 2010, staff will report back to Council with the results of the negotiations and additional studies for a final decision on the implementation of the LPP. Council will vote on whether or not to enter into a project agreement after reviewing the negotiated terms for finance, transportation, parking, market studies, heritage and the agreement framework. Following a decision by Council to enter into a project agreement, the City and OSEG will focus on critical planning approvals, detailed design issues, completion of the project agreements, and all other approvals with external agencies and third parties. Work on the final design and construction of the project would begin in March 2011 and be completed by May 2014.

The Daly Site was developed by Claridge I believe. None of the names of the 4 partners have a connection now to Claridge (as far as I can find with a quick Google search) but they might have been involved with the Daly Site back in the day, or I might have missed something.

The way I understand it, council voted that they support the principle of Lansdowne Live, pending the reports I wrote about in my post above, as well as many other things (design, more money matters, etc). I could be wrong though.

So now there are 7 months of reports, debate and getting real answers to questions before this thing goes ahead or dies.

Rob Jellett Mr. Belvedere

paperbag Records just released an anniversary compilation of covers that would qualify as a mix cd... I haven't listened yet but the tracklist shows potential... In 2002 the label that brought you the likes of Tokyo Police Club, You Say Party! We Say Die!, The Deadly Snakes, Rock Plaza Central, and even Broken Social Scene (yes, You Forgot It In People was first pressed on PB) came on to our nation’s music scene. Since then, as apparent from the small sample of bands they’ve worked with, Paper Bag Records has been pivotal in defining Canadian music in the 2000s. To celebrate seven good years they are releasing a compilation album of covers by bands currently on the label called The Seven Year Itch. The track listing is as follows: 01 CFCF - "How Bizarre" (OMC cover) 02 Winter Gloves - "Smells Like Teen Spirit" (Nirvana cover) 03 Woodhands - "Electric Avenue" (Eddy Grant cover) 04 Sally Shapiro - "Dying In Africa" (Nicolas Makelberge cover) 05 You Say Party! We Say Die! - "Falling Out" (Rick Agnew cover) 06 Josh Reichmann - "Daniel" (Bat For Lashes cover) 07 Laura Barrett - "Gamma Ray" (Beck cover) 08 Rock Plaza Central - "I Want You" (Bob Dylan cover) 09 The Acorn - "Strange Animal" (Gowan cover) 10 Little Girls - "Heinz" (Artery cover) 11 Slim Twig - "Behold A Lady" (Outkast cover) 12 Under Byen - "Du er min øjesten" (Peter Malberg cover) Download for free here: http://paperbagrecords.com/downloads/7yearitch

The online Apple Store sells refurbished ipods which are most definitely the cheapest way to go if you want to buy new and have a warranty. The Classics hold a lot of music / photos / videos and are easy to use. The Shuffle holds only music and is lighter / smaller and easy to use. Go down to the Apple Store at the Rideau Centre and try them all out, see what you like and what you don't like. You can probably even order from the refurb store from the retail location.

Here are some of my thoughts. If I've got any facts wrong, please do correct them. Football / Stadium: I'm indifferent to a CFL franchise. Football-watchin' is fun, but it has failed here twice before. All this other development is just a foot in the door to secure city funding for the Renegades / Roughriders / whatever they'll be called. I think a stadium is important and needed (if not for CFL then for events similar to the Stones show, U20 World Cup, Francophonie Games, etc) , but I don't think we should pay to refurbish Frank Clair - it's a dump (as is the Civic Centre Arena). They should build a proper new stadium close to proper transit (which Ottawa doesn't have). Of course there is no money to do this. (Zero means 10%). I heard somewhere that it cost $60 million to build BMO Field in Toronto, yet the Lansdowne Live bid calls for $113 million to refurbish Frank Clair. What the hell? If someone is going to spend all kinds of money on this site, do it up right - rip the stadium down and build something beautiful and functional, and if you can do it for cheaper, great! Also, football didn't ever make money in Ottawa. Retail: If Lansdowne Live is going to be a tourist spot / regional draw (like all the literature touts), a supermarket and a movie theatre are not going to cut it. The Mayfair is across the canal, there are multiple screens at World Exchange, South Keys, and Rideau Centre, not to mention many more outside the core. There are already two supermarkets in the Glebe and Old Ottawa South, not to mention specialty stores such as the Meat Market, Kardish Foods, Wild Oat, Nicastro's, Brioche, Serious Cheese, Ottawa Farmer's Market etc... These stores and the Mayfair may survive, but it sure doesn't seem like a fair fight. If retail is so badly needed (like the supporters say) why isn't the retail coming here regardless of OSEG? Isn't that what free market capitalism is all about? The OSEG gets the 10 acres for retail rent-free for 30 years while receiving all the revenue from the site (that's the whole site). Money-stuff: Like already said, OSEG gets this land rent-free for 30 years plus all revenue, plus the city pays for the stadium upgrades and the parking garage (while giving all the proceeds to the OSEG). OSEG can walk away after 5 years and leave the city with the tab. After the 30 years, OSEG is still first in line for their portion of revenues. Plus they're not going to make much from property taxes on the site. Taxpayers should benefit first, not the developers. Aesthetics: From what I've seen in the artist renditions, it's an ugly site. We live in a national capital - the plans look nothing like a source of pride for the city / country / neighbourhood. Everything just needs to be better. The Aberdeen Pavilion could be an amazing market, but instead they want to partition it for restaurants and open space. Other capitals and major cities have landmark developments in sites similar to Lansdowne - an often quoted example is Granville Island in Vancouver. I have no idea if that's turned out to be good for the city, but the multiple times I've been there when visiting Vancouver I've had a good time and spent money. Parking and Residential: They want to build a $13 million parking garage (city pays, OSEG gets all revenue for 30 years). Nothing specific to not-like here. I just don't like it in general. Also I don't think residential dwellings should be on this site. City Council: What a bunch of jokers. They're voting today to see if they as a whole agree with the plan in principle. Yet there is still quite a bit unknown about this proposal that should be taken into account before any such vote. There is a heritage study to be done about proposed changes to the Aberdeen Pavilion, a traffic study, the issue of the market impact in on Glebe merchants hasn't been figured out (there were two reports, with wildly different conclusions). The Good Things: The Farmers' Market needs a permanent home, and if it looked nice, was indoor and was functional that would be great. Use the St. Lawrence Market, the Kitchener Farmer's Market or something similar as a starting point. A concert site would be nice, but it would be a 'if you build it they might come' gambit. I'd support that though, I like music. I think it would have made a great site for the new public library, but it's not accessible to much transit so screw that. At least people are talking about this. This is off the top of my head... If I think of more I'll post it.

Nothing is wrong with Whole Foods. What I don't like is the proposed location of the store. I'll give more of my reasons for not liking this deal when I get home from work. (I know everyone is waiting anxiously to read that, haha)

If the lansdowne live webpage is up to date, the plan calls for a 41k square foot supermarket and a cinema complex. Where is the best place for up to date info about the project? Any news on all the motions at city hall today?

A movie theatre is a fairly big box, as is Whole Foods.