Birdy

i think i already had it figured out. i just don't like the approach. 911 made the USA worse, not better.

Interesting. You berate the US for bombing others, and clap and approve when others bomb them.

i think the day will soon come where nothing will be talked about in the cavern, as there will always be a sub forum for it! hee, hee. merry christmas ollie!

thank you. that's all i needed to hear.

chameleon, do you know who originally sent our troops overseas?

That and puhleeze stop acting like Harper was the one to send our troops overseas... it was the LIBERALS.

Innocent people died in 9-11 Chameleon, NOT american imperialist policy. Please don't say they 'deserved it'. NOONE deserves what happened that day. You insult the US and complain about their bullying and then in the next breath commend Canada when she pulls the same name-calling tactics! I don't get it. You may look up to Chretien and a few of his staff for their anti-American schoolkid ridiculous behaviour, but i don't. What do you think can be achieved by name calling? Is it commendable that Chretien could do nothing but say 'you're a moron'? Wouldn't he have been a better leader if he was able to effectively communicate Canada's stance on American foreign policy, rather than fumble like an idiot and do ....... NOTHING? I think so. I really don't understand why people feel like he was such a great leader. A great leader wouldn't have left his party reeling in his aftermath, mopping up his bloody mess.

haha. sorry. i'm .... working and .... busy! fwiw, "chretien is a moron" is a statement. i wasn't 'trying' to 'prove' anything.

generally it helps if you give me a chance to respond.

Chretien and Clinton worked well together and I liked him. But it seems that he kind of gave up on diplomacy when Bush was elected, letting 'moron' comments slip by from his staff pretty much unscathed *Dhaliwal, Parrish, Ducros*, not really caring that Canada was pretty much excluded from the world response to 9-11, kind of even insinuating that the Americans might have deserved 9-11 because of the imperialistic ways. Bush was postponing trips to Ottawa and Chretien really could have cared less. It was enough for the world over to take note of Canada's anti-American attitude, and enough too for Paul Martin to come in aftermath styles and try to reconcile the fragile relationship... pledging Canada's assistance with nation-building in Iraq, etc.

That's where Chretien failed.

sweet! thanks cully! ryan adams has a magic way of making me melt. magnolia mountain is unbelievable! so is hallelujah. that's as far as i've got. i wish he'd tour around me!

what's 'by default' mean? i hope you'll find that there's a WHOLE country outside of Toronto. what's your idea of 'improving'? in this thread you're bashing american foreign policy and talking about taking a hit in trade to improve... american foreign policy? chretien was a diplomatic moron. so were half of his administrative staff. if you think diplomatic morons will gain us more 'respect', than you and i share a VASTLY different idea of what 'respect' is.

Happy Birthday lady! You ROCK! Looking forward to the next time we run into each other!

is there a little reset button on the mouse or the receiver thingy? reset! reset!

I think you need to remember the Canadian people elected Harper and the conservatives, knowing full well what their stance was on the Can-Am relationship. I personally felt kind of horrified with how we treated the Americans during the days of Chretien, and don't get me started on Trudeau. I never once proposed any sort of 'bend over and take it' mentality, rather an understanding of how heavily our North American society is entwined, thanks to such things as NAFTA and NATO. I think with what we have, we do roll the dice and assert ourselves, but i think it's also important to realize that we are by no means on an equal playing field with the US and i think the kind of assertation that you want to make will make us look rather foolish and maybe makes us look too big for our britches. I don't think the US is going to pull the plug on us at all. But I do think they have the power to make things a tad bit more uncomfortable for Canadian exporters should they want to, exactly what they did with softwood lumber and cattle. Should lumberers and farmers be the ones to pay because Ottawa chooses to adopt an anti-American stance? Hell no. It's much easier for us all to work with them than against them, and I respect Harper for wanting to do this. Harper has stood his ground against Bush, but unlike Chretien, did it in a way that leaves our good relationship still intact. It's easy for the French to hate on the US because they're so far removed from it all, it's not so easy for us. That should be understood. Yes, the US has made some god-awful decisions when it comes to foreign policy and thankfully Canada isn't standing beside them, say as much as Tony Blair and the British. I don't agree with their policies, but i do in a way sympathize with them. World politics and global economies and trade relationships and all of that is some serious business.. the Americans were trying to do as they saw right, and they failed. The world knows this and Canada knows this. Harper isn't nor won't enlist our troops to stand beside the Americans in Iraq, so I really don't understand the severity of some of the comments in this thread. This to me reads much more like a Liberal campaign ad than it does actual news.

You're funny.

we're far, FAR, FAR more dependant on the US than they are on us. should the US really consider what Canada thinks or does? really? in the grand scheme of world powers, what's Canada on the map, as compared to the super power house of the US? even comparing us to them seems kind of ridiculous to me. while i admit saying a big fuck you and giving the middle finger sounds nice and fun, but realistically, it's fucking idiotic and would serve nothing better than kicking ourselves in the teeth. we're wholly dependant on the US, whether our pride let's ourselves admit it or not. it will be great to gain the respect of the world... but when more than half of our country is unemployed, families unable to feed their children, trade all but depleted, what will that respect really even mean? we need to think responsibly.

You don't think Canada has benefitted from such things as NAFTA or NATO? What about the good old 'branch plant' economy? Or the cajillions of dollars of trade that trucks over the Ambassador bridge between Windsor and Detroit, DAILY? Do you like such things as the NHL? the MLBA? the NBA? Ever taken a good solid look at the labels on your clothes?? Or at the car you drive? Or at the food in your fridge? Or at the computer you are typing on? Or at the tv that you watch? I think before anyone commits to pushing anyone away 'fast enough' they should look a little deeper at just how engrained our societies are. there's much, MUCH more going on aside from foreign policy.

cuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn. i think we have stood to benefit a thing or two from the americans in say the last 100 years. it's sad though.. how quickly we're able to push that all to the side.

*waves bye to yesterday!* [color:purple]onwards and upwards, i suppose.

i've got to hang with a few in my day through the car world: kato kalein mary hart reggie jackson - HUGE, HUGE JACKASS billy gibbons james hetfield chip foose sela ward bobby unser jay leno nicholas cage mikhail baryshnikov kato's my favourite. he's a rockstar.

kinda judgemental, don't ya think?

read: we can rape their resources. :crazy: like we haven't benefitted off anything from them!