Smoking bylaw in Hamitlon

[paisley]

starts tomorrow!! ::

guess I'm off to the bar for a last relaxing few beers sitting at the table without having to get up and go outside for a smoke

BOO! (and oh well... thank god its patio season anyways)

[Alexis]

yeah toronto's start tonight at midnight. at least y'all got a cool bar in hamilton with an ultra cool patio.

[paisley]

yeah, that and Hess Village, patio's gallore (thought it was already outlawed in Toronto, anytime I'm there they'll give you an ashtray but tell you you're not 'officially' allowed to smoke in the bar... like Guelph

still, as a music fan (who actually tries to go outside a lot of the time anyways) kinda sucks... also sometimes sitting having a heavy conversation with someone it kinda sucks to break it up with "wanna pop outside for a butt"... so much for free choice, my friends from Germany have vowed not to vacation here anymore as when they blow $70 on a meal and couple of drinks they then have to go outside for a smoke... they couldn't believe it

wondering who'll be the first bar to say to hell with it and just accept the fines to steal the drinking crowd

[Alexis]

what are they going to do when people walking outside on the street complain that it's too smokey there?

in TO it was certain designated smoking areas in the bar/restaurant to allow for smoking. now the only way to do it is with a sepertely ventilated room, and even those will be phased out in 3 years with no compensation for the expense the owner/operator has already incurred while building these things they didn't know would have an expiry date. sorry, had a conversation about it with a friend who manages a busy downtown bar with one of these rooms. and they'll segregate the crowds in the bar as well.

it's a hard debate, why should smokers be made to feel like scond class citizens, being herded into rooms, all by themselves, or get out onto the street away from the rest of us, but non-smokers shouldn't be forced to breathe the smoke....who's got my heady answer?

[FairySari]

Toronto used to have a no-smoking in bars law, but it got canned.. too unpopular... but while it was in effect, it was the bar or restaurant that you were smoking in that would get slapped with the fine, not the person smoking.

As far as I remember from the last time I was in Guelph (which was a few years ago), it was the individual caught smoking that would get a fine, not the bar. So the bar wouldn;t give you a real ashtray, but rather an empty beer bottle or something similar, and pretend they didn't see you.

This time in Toronto, they are doing it the same way Guelph does it. I heard up to a $5000 fine. Hopefully that means that some bars, probably the grungier ones (the silver dollar i hope....), will just pretend they don't see the smokers. At least smoking on patios and in separately ventilated rooms will still be allowed. Too bad not enough places in Toronto have nice patios....

[paisley]

if you want a non-smoking bar, you should have one... The Free Times Cafe has been non-smoking for 25 years... Pepperjacks I could see being non-smoking as it gets REAL stuffy in there sometimes... but I think its ridiculous to fully out outlaw it because of worker health concerns... if I get a job at Dofasco I know I'm moving into a more highly polluted area than most, its my choice... don't want to work in a smokey bar, get a job some place else

I don't see the sense in a "free" society... looks like a step backwards to me

in Hamilton I was standing under a bit of cover on a rainy day on King St. and cops walking the beat came over and told me "you can't smoke there"

see ya tourism economy, at least we can still smoke when camping

[ike]

I can't help but think of the non smokers who work in these establishments. I'm sure for these people this has been a long time coming.

Myself, I'm looking forward to going out to the bar and not having to inhale all that second hand smoke. I hate coming home after a night at the bar with my hair and clothes wreaking of cigarettes. Meanwhile, back in my home town of Simcoe you can still smoke in restaurants. That will probably be the last place in Canada that brings in a smoking bylaw.

[paisley]

good point on the non-smoking musicians ike

this is Doug Feaver's dream come true

[\/\/illy]

This makes me very happy. No more having to burn my clothes when I get home from the bar.

[NewRider]

as someone who wants to quit I have to say I smoke SOOO... much less when a bar is non-smoking. If I have the option at a show, I'm chain-smoking!

Sorry about that Ike, I'll try to blow it Ryan's way in the future!

[paisley]

This makes me very happy. No more having to burn my clothes when I get home from the bar.

you were at the bar \/\/illy? :: ::

hopefully we'll see more of you in la lack de phume!

[\/\/illy]

hopefully we'll see more of you in la lack de phume!

(Been working so much lately, there's hardly been a time for bar hopping in the hammer.)

[ollie]

Sucks for the stealth tokers too. I was really against the ban in Ottawa. Still am. The market should decide if there's a need for smoke-free bars. If so many people are clamouring for this, why didn't a savvy bar owner cash in before it was mandated? I call it social engineering.

[\/\/illy]

The market should decide if there's a need for smoke-free bars. If so many people are clamouring for this, why didn't a savvy bar owner cash in before it was mandated? I call it social engineering.

Come on. That's a huge load of shit. Sorry, but I really think it is. You should be allowed to smoke in a bar no more than I should be able to pour drinks on you in a bar. Oh, nevermind, this is going to get me beaten up.

[ollie]

It is not a load of shit. Smoking is legal. A bar should have the right to allow smoking. No one is forced into a bar. A bar is not a right. Don't like the smoke, don't go in. Or, open a smoke-free bar. The throngs of people clamouring for smoke-free bars will surely make you a rich man. ::

[\/\/illy]

It shouldn't be legal in a confined environment because it infringes on my right to breathe air not laden with carcinogens.

[Esau]

It is not a load of shit. Smoking is legal. A bar should have the right to allow smoking. No one is forced into a bar. A bar is not a right. Don't like the smoke, don't go in. Or, open a smoke-free bar. The throngs of people clamouring for smoke-free bars will surely make you a rich man. ::

I agree,but as well that right there is where the problem for me lies,its legal,plain & simple.

I have no problem what so ever stepping outside for a smoke myself,but I do believe that the full ban is a bit much,being tobacco is a legal product that the goverment profits off,then bar owners should be able to or have the option to open a smoke friendly establishment just as they can open a smoke free establishment.Biggest problem I've seen in the past is the majority doesn't want smoke free bars,resturants yes,which I can wholeheartedly agree with.But most bars certianly would rather make costly improvements to the ventilation system then say goodbye to the majority of paying customers,which just happens to be smokers in thisa case.

Make tobacco illegal or cease goverment profit from it and then I can see a reason to enforce this on the small business owner.

I can see some offset problems ariseing from this.

Example:

Places like Fever Night Club (notorious for sketchiness) now have no restrictions on legal age (age of majority),they can allow under age folks in the place,merely by attaching a paper bracelet around the wrist,I can see already this opening a whole new issue to be dealt with...actually talks about it in todays or yesterdays spec.

Either way,won't make me stop going outside,I plan on attempting to quit anyhow,but I do believe,especially through the summer months bar owners will expirence a significant decline in patrons,equalling less profit made and perhaps overall effecting some live shows that we all attend,when not enough $$ is made at the bar.

Willy,I see your point,but as mentioned entering a bar is entirely up to the individual,not being exposed to second hand smoke is still up to you ultimatley,although I do see why a person who doesn't smoke wouldn't want to be,but no one is made to enter the place,just as I don't have to enter a smoke free bar either if I choose not to or resturant(I agree with the ban in resturants though).Saying your going to shut up for fear of gettin "beat up" is sorta fuelling that sort of action in my opinion,one exchange with someone isn't getting shit on,at least not to me anyway.

Not shitting on ya Willy or any other non-smoker,just as you gave your brief,insight and reasoning,I gave mine.

[MarcO]

Don't want to get into the finer points about personal liberties and issues of legality but from my perspective - someone who has never taken up smoking and can't fucking stand seeing those death-sticks hanging out of people's faces all the time - it's fantastic!

[NewRider]

if I get a job at Dofasco I know I'm moving into a more highly polluted area than most, its my choice

or if you don't like the smell of marijuana than you probably shouldn't go to that Motorhead concert. When they nixed smoking in Milton bars they lost about 60% of the customers! Milton is a blue-collared town and all the people that came out to the bars decided to start drinking at home. I don't think Hamilton is very different, it will probably effect a lot of the bars in town especially come next January.

[Pootie Tang]

Don't want to get into the finer points about personal liberties and issues of legality but from my perspective - someone who has never taken up smoking and can't fucking stand seeing those death-sticks hanging out of people's faces all the time - it's fantastic!

Agree'd, I've been loving it big time since Ottawa put their ban on, no more stinky bars, stinky clothes, and stinky people to deal with. Go outside, it's not a lot of effort and smokers need the fresh air once and a while anyway.

[SevenSeasJim]

As always let’s think of the big picture first. Having a smoke-free environment can only benefit society as a whole. While the personal rights of a smoker are being thrown in the garbage my personal rights of living in a healthy environment are as well. I understand the argument of “if you don’t like the smoke don’t go or don’t work there”, but I still think it’s kind of weak. For a good portion of people who smoke, I am supporting them in their problem/cancer years with the taxes I pay (smokers can be health care burdens). So, as a non smoker I do have a right to a smoke free environment. This is only one portion of the “Healthier” Society question though (poor environment, the crap that most people eat). I think if we can tackle one issue at a time then we can live much better and healthier down the road. Unfortunately this is a complex issue of individual rights vs beneifits to society.

Just my opinion.

[Esau]

As always let’s think of the big picture first. Having a smoke-free environment can only benefit society as a whole. While the personal rights of a smoker are being thrown in the garbage my personal rights of living in a healthy environment are as well. I understand the argument of “if you don’t like the smoke don’t go or don’t work there”, but I still think it’s kind of weak. For a good portion of people who smoke, I am supporting them in their problem/cancer years with the taxes I pay (smokers can be health care burdens). So, as a non smoker I do have a right to a smoke free environment. This is only one portion of the “Healthier” Society question though (poor environment, the crap that most people eat). I think if we can tackle one issue at a time then we can live much better and healthier down the road. Unfortunately this is a complex issue of individual rights vs beneifits to society.

Just my opinion.

Then perhaps the issue should be making smoking completely illegal.Something that won't happen since its the biggest money grab the gov't has.

I don't disagree completley with you, but perhaps if the goverment took some of the profits they rake in from tobacco,going all the way back to the hefty taxes the farmer gets put on them and put it towards this health care burden instead of lotteries,gov't raises etc etc then the load on the common person wouldn't be as large.We as tax payers also spend almost as much or more some years in drug rehabs and alcohol rehab.

If we're going to tackle a problem one at a time then how about we finish tackling the other enviromental issues that we started fighting and that are having a much greater effect on our health then second hand smoke,especially globgally.Since the topic of a healthier society was brought up.

I don't think its "weak" to allow a smoke friendly establishment,but I do think its weak when non smokers say its not right or infringes on their right to enter whatever bar they want.The same bars would never be frequented or wanted to be by non smokers if this wasn't happening currently,how many non smokers say "hey lets go for drinks in a cigar bar"?

Agian,as I have already mentioned,I don't have any problems going outside for a smoke,but I will wager the quality and quantity of good bars will slowly decrease,taking with it some of the shows we love due to less patrons,less money for the bar,the less they will want to spend on a band to come and play.granted,thats a minor detail right now but one I forsee occuring.

[NewRider]

I've seen a few bars here in Milton have to close down because of the lack of business due to the bylaw. So now everyone can breathe okay but the bar is gone anyways. I agree non-smokers have a right to smoke-free environments, I guess it's a tough situation though. Ultimately I think it should be left up to the bar owners, they know their customers and if they're gonna lose all their business by going non-smoking. I'm not trying to infringe on the rights of non-smokers here I'm just trying to figure wether it would be a better world to have smoking in bars or half the bars?!?!

[c-towns]

Gotta love Calgary's laws.

You can smoke in the majority of bars and restauants still, but you'll get fined if you light up on any patio.

ass backwards province i tell ya.

[SevenSeasJim]

Greg, I know this is a complex issue and I value your opinion on the subject, but I still can't see any positive's about smoking. Some of what i've read here seems like economics takes precendence over health (ie. this bar will close down). Business will and have adapted to this. A bar in Huntsville last year had it's liquor sales dive 40%, but at the same time it's food sales went up 40%-60%.

Parry Sound also went smoke free today, but some of the bars/restaurants went smoke free months ago and they have had nothing but positive things to say about it.

And yes there are many other issues out there as well (drugs/alcohol). Nobody said this was an easy or fair thing to figure out.