Tookie Dead

[Thorgnor]

Convict is one thing, killer is another for me. And I think that that's how change comes about. Post-event outrage. I could honestly give a fuck for Tookie as an individual, but as a person I can't help but want to believe he did his best.

A lot of bad things have happened because of people following orders. A flawed process still needs support to continue. That's what makes me interested... less in saving him and more in changing the tides.

Who am I kidding? AMBULANCE CHASER ALERT!!!

PS. I do still think racism was the leading cause in his execution and that his "convicted" involvement doesn't discount a skewed outcome from the beginning.

Edited December 13, 2005 by Guest

[SmoothedShredder]

It's a mad world.

[TheGoodRev]

May I remind you of Godwin's Law

. [Homer]Boy' date=' is my face red![/Homer']. I think it's almost been a whole day for me :blush: .

I wouldn't worry about it, DEM. I think the point is that comparing the party on one side of an issue to Hitler or the Nazis is illogical and almost always unfounded. Bringing up Hitler or the Nazis in some other manner, though, is not necessarily unfounded.

[secondtube]

so why did this dude get nominated for a nobel peace prize?

[TheGoodRev]

He apologized for forming the Crips, and wrote a couple of children's books. That doesn't make him innocent, though.

I'm not trying to say that he's definitively guilty, because I obviously don't know. And I'm certainly aware that there have been mistakes made, people put on death row who don't belong there. But take a quick look at the PDF that Polkaroo posted, with the last meals and last statements of the inmates put to death in the US in 2004. I did a quick tally: there are 59 names, my total number is only 58 so I must have missed one, but no big deal. Sixteen of the inmates made last statements that could be considered apologies and/or admissions of guilt. Eleven proclaimed their innocence, while a further thirteen made no statement. The remaining eighteen said something altogether different, not mentioning their crimes.

I think a good number of these death row inmates are under the impression that emphatically proclaiming their innocence, even if they are not innocent, is ok if they have "made peace with God," once God has "forgiven them for their sins". Again, no idea whether this particular guy was guilty or innocent, but I have a hard time believing that eleven of the 59 people executed in 2004 were, in fact, innocent. These are people who, at one point in their lives, decided that killing somebody else was worth their own happiness or betterment or whatever. Perhaps many of them are no longer in that frame of mind, but don't think I would put lying in such a bold fashion past them at any point in their lives.

[secondtube]

"He apologized for forming the Crips, and wrote a couple of children's books."

oh ya, that would definately make him a candidate for the peace prize....

then again, i think GWB was nominated as well.

[MamaBurnsy]

Did you know the US is the ONLY civilised nation that executes.

I don't agree with capital punishment, there is almost always(for me) a chance for reasonable doubt(exept with DNA testing). Biased investigations, mistaken witnesses, tampered evidence, scapegoats for "the man", etc. It is scary to find out when people are exonorated after spending many years on death row.

Not to mention I don't think it is anybody's right to take away a human life, regardless of the crime.

Another questions is where to draw the line? Is it acceptable for a country (Singapore) to execute a 20 year old man for drug trafficking, I don't think so... But when you allow such punishments, it becomes a slippery slope to tread on. Crime and punishment is in the eye of the beholder.

How presumptuous and arrogant of humans to think we have a right to judge and put people to death.

[SevenSeasJim]

Did you know the US is the ONLY civilised nation that executes.

I don't agree with capital punishment, there is almost always(for me) a chance for reasonable doubt(exept with DNA testing). Biased investigations, mistaken witnesses, tampered evidence, scapegoats for "the man", etc. It is scary to find out when people are exonorated after spending many years on death row.

Not to mention I don't think it is anybody's right to take away a human life, regardless of the crime.

Another questions is where to draw the line? Is it acceptable for a country (Singapore) to execute a 20 year old man for drug trafficking, I don't think so... But when you allow such punishments, it becomes a slippery slope to tread on. Crime and punishment is in the eye of the beholder.

How presumptuous and arrogant of humans to think we have a right to judge and put people to death.

What's the defintion of "Civilized Nation"?

[TheGoodRev]

I think she means "First World"

And I agree that it's wrong, as I've said. I was surprised when I read the statistics that Polkaroo posted that to execute somebody actually costs a great deal more than to imprison them for life, because most execution cases go through so, so many different appeals that the court costs skyrocket. I'm not saying we should take the cheapest option, but I always thought that there was a prevailing argument in favour of capital punishment that decried the draining of public funds to feed, clothe and house convicted killers for the remaining years of their lives. Interesting to now find out how much cheaper that option is compared to multiple appeals.

[SevenSeasJim]

Wasn't the good ole USA built on revenge :wink:

maybe that was just a dream.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Wasn't the good ole USA built on revenge :wink:

I think that was Manifest Destiny, which means about the same thing when you've just been rendered dead.

[SevenSeasJim]

"Manifest Destiny was a moral ideal (a "higher law") that superseded other considerations, including international laws and agreements" (from Wiki)

This never happens now....right???