Good quote for the Sanctuary

[SmoothedShredder]

I think the quote is a good one, especially if it is framed as SS suggests above. The word "cynic" though is, as they say, hopelessly overdetermined. There are cynics and then there are cynics. I've always been a big fan of the original Cynic, Diogenes , who had a pretty coherent understanding of his own values. As the (apocryphal) story goes,

During his residence at Corinth, an interview between him and Alexander is said to have taken place. Plutarch relates that Alexander [the Great], when at Corinth, receiving the congratulations of all ranks on being appointed to command the army of the Greeks against the Persians, missed Diogenes among the number, with whose character he was acquainted. Curious to see the one who exhibited such haughty independence of spirit, Alexander went in search of him and found him sitting in his tub in the sun. "I am Alexander the Great," said the monarch. "And I am Diogenes the Cynic,"replied the philosopher. Alexander then requested that he would inform him what service he could render him. "Stand from between me and the sun," said the Cynic. Alexander, struck with the reply, said to his friends, who were ridiculing the whimsical singularity of the philosopher, "If I were not Alexander, I should wish to be Diogenes."

I like Mencken on cynics, though -

One of the most curious of human delusions lies in the theory that cynics are unhappy men - that cynicism makes for a general biliousness and malaise. It is a false deduction, I believe, from the obvious fact that cynics make other men unhappy. But they are themselves among the most comfortable and serene of mammals; perhaps only bishops, pet dogs, and actors are happier. For what a cynic believes, though it may be too dreadful to be put into formal words, at least usually has the merit of being true - and truth is ever a rock, hard and harsh, but solid under the feet.

(Mencken was decidedly and bitterly cynical himself, in what I find a really enjoyable and satisfying way.)

Perhaps then, all the Cynics that I/Billy Bragg are refering too are just Cynics in training... Diogenes was content in his Cynicism, the Cynicism in regards to the performing arts tends to be cloaked in competitivness/disappointment/audiophillia/anger/unfamiliarity... and would suggest are not the sort of pure Cynicism that was being portrated by Diogenes. He didn't have to go off like a kettle whistle everytime something he was cynical about got in his way... in spite of it, he still managed to find a positive, seemingly enlighteded way to deal with the situation (a very non-materialistic one too, which is healthy) in this case using Alexander as a Sun shade (since he offered)... The "your band sucks" form of Cynicism seems to lack this sure and confident, or enlightened aspect...

As far as the second quote... I take no pleasure in the suffering of another individual (outside of a few Leaf fans), why should a Cynic gain pleasure in knowing they are or may be causing suffering to another (wo)man? See, more problems... no solution.

Edited January 28, 2006 by Guest
Insterted word: Unfamiliarity

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I don't know if Mencken meant that cynics intend to make other people unhappy, it's just that that how most people respond to the kind of cynical (i.e. uncomfortable) truths that Mencken (et al.) are talking about. It's not the cynics' fault, in other words, if people don't like what they hear. I mean, it's a far cry from someone like Aquinas, who would talk about how good Christians would one day get to gloat when they saw all the "sinners" who had given them so much trouble writhing in pain in Hell.

Mencken, for his part, was a huge admirer of Nietzsche (his were among the first and best English translations of Nietzsche in NA, and they still stand up really well). Nietzsche, in the same way as Mencken talks, had nothing but contempt for "the comfortable answer"; in his view, we tend to shy away from truths that cut too close to the bone, and allow all our stupidities to accumulate and flourish because we're too skittish to address them face on and just deal with them.

[bokonon]

i think it's funny that almost every post in this thread about quotes has quotes in it.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

And I in turn find it funny, as Bokonon says, that "it's funny that almost every post in this thread about quotes has quotes in it."

Edited January 28, 2006 by Guest
Forgot the smiley

[payce-ley]

i think it's funny that almost every post in this thread about quotes has quotes in it.

[guigsy]

you funny red haired motherfucker!

[tigger]

"Where is my beer "

[geomouse]

that's what I said...

[Hux]

I agree with the quote.

I also think cynicism often goes hand in hand with LAZINESS.

It's a lot easier to be cynical than to get off your ass and actually try to do something.

[bokonon]

i put a lot of effort in to my jaded cynicism thank-you very much. it takes a lot of vitriol to be me.