bradm Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I think I have a problem.Indecisiveness?Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) My objection would be that it seems that you believe that people are irrationally flipping out over the review when from where I sit it seems that they are making pretty reasonable critiques.I don't think anyone's throwing themselves on the floor about any of this...so the Big Hairy Deal portion of the argument really gives off a "you people are idiots" kind of vibe....and one I've seen from your corner before when people speak on reviews, hence the knee jerk accusation....I dunno I'm just challenging you.There are far more crappy jambands than there are good ones. People 'round these parts are always up in arms any time any music journalist criticizes anything jam-related. Everyone claims to be open-minded, but most are not - mostly because they are too closed-minded about anything that is seen to be "popular", - (i.e., if it's popular with the masses it must be shit) and too welcoming of every half-assed noodle band that drops a generic, boring, seven-minute solo inbetween each of their terrible, shittily-written verses. Edited June 30, 2006 by Guest Subject-verb agreement issue made me look illiterate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 There is far more crappy jambands than there are good ones.True, but90% of everything is crud.I don't believe the crappy:amazing ratio is any different for jambands from what it is for any other genre of bands, including indie and alternative rock.Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I don't believe the crappy:amazing ratio is any different for jambands from what it is for any other genre of bands, including indie and alternative rock.I would agree with you there, too. But I don't really think that your view is fully shared by a lot of people on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakis Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Does it really matter if someone enjoys a "crappy" jamband, indie band or whatever band. As long as they enjoy listening to that band, then the band is not crappy to that listener. If someone enjoys that 90% ratio of crappy bands, who cares let them enjoy it. You don't have to put them down because of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) Does it really matter if someone enjoys a "crappy" jamband, indie band or whatever band. As long as they enjoy listening to that band, then the band is not crappy to that listener. If someone enjoys that 90% ratio of crappy bands, who cares let them enjoy it. You don't have to put them down because of it.My beef isn't with people who like crappy music, but rather with people who believe that they are open-minded about music - and loudly proclaim their "open-mindedness" as superior to those who prefer commercial music - just because they listen to jambands (or any other type of music that falls outside of the commercial, popular sphere), but are unable to recognize the fact that their "open-mindedness" does not extend beyond their particular favourite genre - ie, those who cannot recognize that there are other types of music that it is perfectly okay for others to enjoy, and are offended whenever anyone else (an "outsider", like a reviewer from Pitchfork for example) says anything negative about their own scene. Just because the reviewer in the original post doesn't really give a crap about Phil Lesh does not negate the valididty of his viewpoint surrounding the festival. Just because he would rather see Death Cab For Cutie than moe. doesn't mean that his views on the festival itself are worthless.Perhaps I didn't do a very good job of illustrating that point in my original post. Edited June 30, 2006 by Guest Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 ***Of course, I should point out that for every "open-minded" person on this board, there is also a genuine open-minded person who truly does enjoy a wide range of music. I have been introduced to many new artists through various members of this board, and I thank them all for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I think I have a problem. don't get me wrong ollie, it'd have to be a stellar lineup for me not to intoxicate myself somehow. i mean i am from the chatham area.. it kind of makes us who we are... being trash bags, and all. but i am one of the lucky ones i suppose.. i can get along without it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 this thread makes me want to buy this t-shirt: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I just don't understand.I don't understand why the "indie" scene can be seen to be the natural enemy of the jamband scene. Or pop music, for that matter.I don't understand the predictable reaction to any slightly negative mainstream mention of anything "jamband" fans hold dear. Anyone remember the poor review Phish got in the Toronto Sun back in 1999 or 2000? Big hairy deal. Where's the threat?I don't understand why guigsy constantly makes so much sense.I don't understand Deeps' response to my comments.I don't understand why the bus was so fucking late this morning. It gets later and later every day.I just don't understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Way to twisted of an argument at this point.My point is that essentially the guy writing review dismissed everything except what he decided was valid. From many of the pieces I've read from people who are very into Indie music they tend to like carve into things that are different. It's like they're afraid that the bubble's going to burst on the Indie world they identify with so much so if they don't take a pot shot at other genres as they sing the praises of their own they may serve as the proverbial pin.It's this whole disgruntled geek thing....it's fucking tiring. You go to an Inide show in Guelph and it's crawling with snobs giving off this "this is our scene and why are you even here trying to get it man you think you're so cool man....you remind of the people who used to beat me in highschool"....well I'm not the guy that beat you in highschool, in fact if you'd let your guard down you might find a friend and realize this is someone who is in fact supporting what you love.Sorry for the rant.MarcO to me this unintelligent discourse in the media is rather new....it seems that you're saying this is no surprise so why worry? I can respect your history and experience but I didn't read the 1999 or 2000 Phish review so to me it is surprising that reporters are acting like weasels and shitting on things I care about to make their point...it A is completely unnecessary and B fucks with cross-pollenation of crowds on both sides of the musical garden....not good IMHO.Deeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 My point is that essentially the guy writing review dismissed everything except what he decided was valid.That's because it's HIS review. I am dismissing the rest of your reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I guess I expect too much diplomacy from people. I tend not to go through my life saying I hate this but I love this. Just my personality type I suppose. It's apparent that there's a way to critique things that will promote understanding and there's a way to critique things that serves to shut down debate and growth, this pitchfork review has elements of both. I don't dig on the more catty side of the review, and honestly it's not because I am such a jam head that I can't believe that people wouldn't like what I like; I'm not, I just like a kinder approach than the one this guy chooses to take at some points. There are many noteable quotes HERE on the subject of critics. Some that support my view and some that tell me to ignore the feelings brought forth by critics all together.CheersDeeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 part one of the jambands.ca bonnaroo review will be posted very soon. hope it generates as much interest and debate as pitchfork! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Deeps, how long have you been a part of the so-called 'Jambands scene'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) 2 years. Edited June 30, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 2 years.Psssssssssst..............let me let you in on a little secret that too me a while to figure out. There is no such thing as a 'scene'If people want to think like that, they automatically create division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 (edited) Are you patronizing me? Seriously wondering here.Oh and I agree. Edited June 30, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Are you patronizing me?No no no........you would know. Just going along with the flow here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 easy boys.You may have taken the longer road to find us, Steve, but you've more than paid your dues by bringing fresh music to the table. There's no heirarchy around here.Booche, you're a crusty old hippie. But your anti-bullshit detector is an asset to all and one other "hippies" could employ a little more often.Again, I've said it before and I'll say it again: it is *not* the job of the critic to be agreeable, diplomatic, to build bridges or promote anything. It is by nature a subjective exercise and I wouldn't have it any other way. In the right hands, the critic can be a keen observer who can provide keen insight and cut through all the niceties. Unfortunately, this is rare. I don't know where this pitchfork review falls into that spectrum but it is hardly the worst review I have ever seen.The man takes a valid position: no-one outside of the obvious groups of peoples take any notice of the Grateful Dead, who their bass player is, who is in his band (Joan who?). He is right - from his perspective - to choose to focus his concerns on younger acts and current trend-setters like Radiohead. The question becomes: do you want to try to be ahead of, or behind, the curve?I love Phil Lesh with all of my heart and soul. But it doesn't upset me in the least that this dude doesn't care to know who he is. I'm not the writer's audience. Or am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Well put. MarcO and thanks for the clarification Booche.Interesting POV on critics MarcO and one that has expanded my understanding of their game, but I do believe that in a time when music is trying to escape the trappings of big business to mock people who lead or paved that way is pretty deplorable and shows a complete lack of respect and reverance.....a behaviour I have been seeing all too much and again only serves to divide. Oh Hippies suck and blah blah and hippies are this and all drug addicts and their music is sub par.....with not even an incling of self critique or definition of what a hippy is! dud e needs to check in with himself.As Elvis Costello (a decidely non-hippie) sang it on the main stage Sat @ Bonnaroo....What's so funny 'bout peace love and understanding? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Hippies suck and blah blah and hippies are this and all drug addicts and their music is sub par.....with not even an incling of self critique or definition of what a hippy is! This belief has never changed since the beginning of the hippy counter-culture "movement". Real hippies are long gone or used record store owners holding on to a memory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 Hippies suck and blah blah and hippies are this and all drug addicts and their music is sub par.....with not even an incling of self critique or definition of what a hippy is! dude needs to check in with himself.I'm not sure that I can see where he said this. I mean, I know it's 1 AM, and I've had 7 beers, and it's 4000 degrees out with a humidity of 98%, but I can't find this in the original article posted by Low Roller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau. Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 There is no such thing as a 'scene'Thats why I like to create my own "scene". Literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted June 30, 2006 Report Share Posted June 30, 2006 I'm going with my gut I guess....it's in his tone...or rather my perception of his tone...or my desire to hear myself speaksorry I overreacted a bit there...I'm pretty far removed from the actual article at this point in the debate.Probably should back away and wait to for AD to weigh in with his view.Deeps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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