Preservationsist Effects on Music

[Deeps]

Last week the Montreal Bistro closed, and not too long ago the Top 'o Senator moved away from Jazz.

With the death of these 2 very important jazz clubs in Toronto it occurred to me that there may be a relationship between their closing and the preservationsist mentality of Jazz 91.1 and for that matter many many many Jazz institutes.

I have more than often turned to Jazz 91.1 and heard some moldy fig talking about any number of dead jazz artists and there monumental importance in 193-something. Though I sincerely believe that there is a need to understand your history to move forward in a genre, this celebration of Jazz's yesterdays seems to be the only focus of many 91.1 djs and as such a little counterproductive to keeping the music alive outside of this museum type setting.

I can't help but feel that they are stifling the younger musicians, and are in denial that their beloved jazz can involve electric instruments.

On this topic my wandered over to the new movement in preservation radio...classic rock.

Wondering if this perpetual celebration of the old as inherently better than the new will have the same effect (assuming) the museum jazz effect is in fact valid of course (subject to debate), on rock venues one day.

It seems somewhat plausible. I mean it's entirely possible that many people are getting "into" music in a big way via the mighty Q and their classic rock ways....they are loving all the great music and thus haven't bought a CD of a living band in some while, arguably not very good for musical progress.

Dunno just some thoughts that occurred to me and occurred to be not completely insane.

Your thoughts?

Deeps

[MarcO]

Rock clubs will always be around, in varying degrees of cyclical success. Many jazz clubs, on the other hand, have to battle against the "ivory tower" mentality of modern day jazz, making their endgame much more difficult.

However, it should be noted that jazz musicians of all sorts of styles enjoy a great support system in Europe and Asia.

[Esau.]

CBC radio's "Jazz Beat" hosted by Katie Malloch (the program has been on air for 24 or so years I believe), seems to play a great mix of old and new Jazz music. Best of all, the majority is Canadian muisc. Although I'm not a regular listener.

Perhaps its time to find a different radio station. I find 91.1 more a pop/easy listening R&B*/jazz type station (its on all day in the kitchen here). My thoughts anyway.

*Todays version of R&B that is.

[hamilton]

Deeps, I think the biggest difference is that there are many more options available to the rock fan than there are to the jazz fan. You can hear newer rock music simply by tuning in to CFNY or various other options. Jazz radio tends to be mostly dominated by "classic" stuff, and there aren't as many options in jazz stations as there are in rock stations.

On the other hand though you could probably place more blame on the listeners. There are plenty of options out there for those who are willing to check them out - especially college radio. The only problem with college radio is that listeners need to know *when* to tune in, as different programs are on at different times. There are also all kinds of internet-based stations that cater to almost any taste. But this requires effort, and most people lean towards easier-to-find options.

The reality is that most people are most interested in hearing what they are already familiar with. They don't necessarily *want* to check out new stuff. It's easy to forget that when you're on a message board like this, where people are obsessed by music. For the average person, music is a pleasant pastime, not an obsession like it is for us weirdos.

[MarcO]

good points, nutcase.

[Deeps]

It would be nice if a portions of every radio hour was dedicated to previously unheard music. Classic rock of the future segments on Q107 would be nice.

So many songs written and so few actually hit the air.

Did anyone notice the Ken Burns jazz series completely stop at around 1960? Brilliant ... way to propel the music you love backward and have the masses believe that it's a mere snapshot in time.

I'd like to know what the Chameleon project guys think about this "point in time" jazz coverage.

I have listened to other stations, and I completely agree that 91.1 is only one example, but it's a big one.

Deeps

[afro poppa]

Deeps, I think the Ken Burn's Jazz Series stopped when it did because it is very difficult to do a history of something that is recent (even in the late 70s), especially jazz. Jazz in the 60s was moving to the avante garde (Ornettte Coleman, etc) and from the avante garde towards the fusion style (Miles - Bitches Brew being the first example, I believe in 69?)...after that it's very hard to say whether jazz has evolved much or if it will ever evolve much. I know I am gonna get debated on this and I only have minimal knowledge (my own listening and a History of Jazz course that I took at UG, where my final was I had to discuss whether jazz exists as a whole or whether each sub style of jazz is whole other style of music, really cool stuff) but you could debate for hours and days on this subject (btw, I would love to do this if anyone is interested).

Either that or Ken Burn's ran out of time or money or something. Either way those are awsome movies/discs.

[can-o-phish]

Jazz 91.1 has it's moments but it's very much like Q107...same stuff over and over again...there are incredible artists that just don't get recognized by the Jazzers who cook up the playlist for the station which comes as no surprise as so many "jazzers" have a "be all & end all" attitude...

Toronto's clubs are dying because the folks that come out to the clubs to take in jazz either will drink water or nurse a single cocktail all evening and the club owners cannot afford to pay the artists and their operating costs...simple as that...

Thanks gawd for Alex Lifeson & Tim Knotter who own and run The Orbit Room and provide such great live acts all week long at more than reasonable prices...

[Deeps]

Love the Orbit Room.

Guelph's Jazzfest is according to most fairly progressive, and books many acts that are not your standard upright, drums, keys type set up. That's great by why do they relegate to the corners of the city in churches and other halls....they really work hard at making jazz not for the people it seems.

Interesting point AP, and I would take the jazz is the sum of it's parts stance. There are many aspects of jazz that could very well be their own genre, but that is progress and the very nature of jazz IMO. As long as there is a focus on solid musicianship, improvisation, and progress it's jazz.

[Burnt]

Toronto's clubs are dying because the folks that come out to the clubs to take in jazz either will drink water or nurse a single cocktail all evening and the club owners cannot afford to pay the artists and their operating costs...simple as that...

prices...

Just to clear something up here. The Montreal Bistro closed because their lease expired and the owners of the property are turning it into a parking garage from what I've heard.

BTW I only listen to 91.1 at night and it always seems to play different way out stuff so unless their daytime programming is different I don't understand these comparisons to the crappy Q107.

[afro poppa]

Interesting point AP, and I would take the jazz is the sum of it's parts stance. There are many aspects of jazz that could very well be their own genre, but that is progress and the very nature of jazz IMO. As long as there is a focus on solid musicianship, improvisation, and progress it's jazz.

I usually take that stance as well. But its not easy when your comparing say New Orleans or Dixieland Jazz to Free or Avante Garde jazz? Really the only things that they have in common are the musicianship (although what do you mean by that? virtuosity? because the instrumentation is usually different) and the improvisation (although in this example, Dixieland had very little actualy improvisation when compared to Free which is mostly improvisation

[Deeps]

I think I'd disagree that Dixieland isn't improv based....it came from brothers playing in the streets...no sheet music involved and then Creole musicians brought the sophistication of the written music to the table eventually, but in my understanding it was quite improv based.

Virtuosity, Improv, and Boundry Pushing, from it's birth and now...until recent developments by historians to tell us all about what is not current or in the now.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

What's that old line from Louis Armstrong - "If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know." Maybe that's just another way of saying that it's indefinable, short of a nod.