Sleeman About To Be SOLD

[\/\/illy]

...likely to a foreign interest.

Not that I drink their beer; although I do enjoy the Upper Canada products, but it's sad to see another of our beer companies being assumed by foreign interests.

There is a chance that a Canadian company may buy them but I can't imagine who.

[kookycanooky]

I remember this topic coming up before - What does this mean in the long term, interms of Canada, and the actual beer?

[bradm]

For Canada, I doubt it means much. The problem with Sleeman (and, to an extent, Upper Canada, both before and after they were acquired) is that they charge premium prices for beers that aren't that distinctive. If you want a beer that has a taste that's different from the mainstream (i.e., Molson & Labatt) beers, you'll still be able to get it, even if the taste of Sleeman (or UC) beer changes after the acquisition; you just may have to switch brands.

Aloha,

Brad

[Blane]

I thought sleeman's and Unibroue (Quebec) just merged less than a year ago. What's going on?

[\/\/illy]

For Canada, I doubt it means much. The problem with Sleeman (and, to an extent, Upper Canada, both before and after they were acquired) is that they charge premium prices for beers that aren't that distinctive.

I agree this is true with respect to Sleeman but I disagree when it comes to Upper Canada; especially before the acquisition by Sleeman. While there are a couple of Upper Canada beers that are relatively undistinctive (Upper Canada Lager for one), there are many that are/were very distinctive. For example, Upper Canada Pale Ale, Upper Canada Winter Brew, Upper Canada Wheat, Upper Canada Rebellion Ale, to name a few.

[Kanada Kev]

I used to love Upper Canada beers prior to their buy-out. Rebellion was my fav. What bummed me out as well, was their switch to the industry-standard twist-off caps. What's so hard about using an opener? Drinking from a bottle with threads is not nearly as good!

later . . .

Kanada Kev =8)

[ollie]

Rebellion was awesome!

Sleeman's does have some disctinctive beers in their signature line: an IPA and a Porter.

[Alexis]

i've talked quite a bit to newrider about this, and he's told me that if sleemans is bought, sooner or later the plant in guelph will be shut down, the recipes emailed somewhere down south or to the molson plant in TO and 3000+ people in guelph will be looking for work.

[ollie]

i've talked quite a bit to newrider about this, and he's told me that if sleemans is bought, sooner or later the plant in guelph will be shut down, the recipes emailed somewhere down south or to the molson plant in TO and 3000+ people in guelph will be looking for work.

[color:purple]At least the shareholders will be rich.

[zero]

For once Brad I can say your definitively wrong. This is definitively about the brand and those clear moulded bottles and painterly labels are a lock. Interbrand just did a study on the biggest brands in the world and Canada doesn't register in the top 100 even though say a country like Switzerland has like 8 including Rolex and Nescafe. Report On Business attributed it to a variety of things including the brain drain, a resource based economy and what they called a 'branch plant mentality'. I'm saying brands are gold and Sleeman's (who I don't know how they faired in the study) is one of the closest things we have to a strong international profiled premium beer. The fact that it is from Canada (itself a good brand with positive connotations of nature, health, quality and coldness) is also desirable.

[YearsAlongTheSea]

maybe canada selling off it's major corporations as new ones emmerge is part of the reason canada has a growing economy at the moment? maybe not too much cause for concern? There's other beers at the Beer Store, maybe they should get more variety. The LCBO is the largest alcohol distributer in the world.

[kookycanooky]

The LCBO is the largest alcohol distributer in the world.

i'm curious to know where you got that?

[bradm]

For once Brad I can say your definitively wrong. This is definitively about the brand and those clear moulded bottles and painterly labels are a lock. Interbrand just did a study on the biggest brands in the world and Canada doesn't register in the top 100 even though say a country like Switzerland has like 8 including Rolex and Nescafe. Report On Business attributed it to a variety of things including the brain drain, a resource based economy and what they called a 'branch plant mentality'. I'm saying brands are gold and Sleeman's (who I don't know how they faired in the study) is one of the closest things we have to a strong international profiled premium beer. The fact that it is from Canada (itself a good brand with positive connotations of nature, health, quality and coldness) is also desirable.

You say I'm definitely wrong, but none of what you wrote deals with anything I wrote. As far as international recognition goes, Upper Canada has (had) Sleeman beat - IIRC, Upper Canada Lager was the first Canadian (if not first North American) beer to pass the stringent Bavarian Purity Laws (the first food safety law in the world, ever, dating back several hundred years).

And yes, Sleeman has a brand identity, and a strong one at that. The thing is, both Sleeman and Upper Canada started up at a time when there were two options for beer drinkers: mass-market domestic beers, or imported. I remember when Upper Canada Dark came on the market, and it was a "Wow!" thing, because no other domestic brewer was making a dark beer.

The market's a lot different now: the low (price) end is moving towards breweries like Lucky and Lakeport, and the high end is moving to imports (the range of imports has expanded greatly, especially now that The Beer Store in Ontario is carrying imports) and micro-breweries that are much smaller than Sleeman.

When I buy beer at a show, I go cheap: Labatt's 50, generally. When I buy beer at the beer store (or, more often, the LCBO), I go high-end; Scotch-Irish's Sgt. Major IPA (which beats Sleeman's IPA hands down, IMnsHO), Belle Guelle, a British or Belgian import, or something along those lines, which cost as much as Sleeman, but are a lot better to my palate.

Tom Peters ("In Search Of Excellence") points out something about consumer markets: there are two ends of the scale: those who want the highest quality, regardless of the price, and those who want the lowest price, regardless of the quality. If you aim at either end, you can do well. If you go middle-of-the-road, you get run over. Sleeman charges high prices for their products, so they miss the low end, but their products aren't of a high enough quality to win the high end. (This idea doesn't apply 100% to beer, however, due to the strong imbalance in Canadian beer production, brand loyalty, and the inter-provincial trade barriers, all of which favour the big breweries who, for the most part, make middle-of-the-road beers.)

I saw a report on Report On Business TV yesterday that pointed out something interesting: it's not about brand, it's about market share. My guess is that the beer market in Canada isn't growing (and some segments may even be shrinking, with "malternatives" such as hard lemonade and the "spiked pop" beverages coming on the market). This means that the only way for the big breweries to increase their sales is to buy other breweries. Sleeman has a 7% share of the Canadian beer market, and Molson and Labatt's would foam at the mouth (of the bottle) to get that 7%, because there really isn't any other way for them to get it.

Aloha,

Brad

[Baj]

moosehead is the best canandian beer! just thought id throw that into the mix ho ho ho

[\/\/illy]

moosehead is the best canandian beer! just thought id throw that into the mix ho ho ho

Sorry to disagree but Niagara Pale Ale is the best.

[zero]

Brad I stand somewhat corrected. It seems like you're using Peters thesis fairly stringently. The problem is that you keep referring to buyer behaviour in the domestic market not the broader aspect of why an international conglomerate would want to buy up a brand and their proprietary recipes/ bottling/ distribution facilities.

[zero]

Brad I stand somewhat corrected. It seems like you're using Peters thesis fairly stringently. The problem is that you keep referring to buyer behaviour in the domestic market not the broader aspect of why an international conglomerate would want to buy up a brand and their proprietary recipes/ bottling/ distribution facilities.

[zero]

Brad I stand somewhat corrected. It seems like you're using Peters thesis fairly stringently. The problem is that you keep referring to buyer behaviour in the domestic market not the broader aspect of why an international conglomerate would want to buy up a brand and their proprietary recipes/ bottling/ distribution facilities.

[ollie]

moosehead is the best canandian beer! just thought id throw that into the mix ho ho ho

Sorry to disagree but Niagara Pale Ale is the best.

Do they still make Dragon's Breath IPA in Kingston? It was my fave when Hart had the license.

[Baj]

Niagara Pale Ale is the best.

i'll have to taste test this...

but my strong eastern roots will always lead me back to the oldest independant brewery in canada...moosehead

[bradm]

Do they still make Dragon's Breath IPA in Kingston? It was my fave when Hart had the license.

As far as I know, Dragon's Breath IPA was just a Hart brand. They licensed the name from the Kingston Brewing Company (a brewpub); the KBC "Dragon's Breath" was a brown/dark ale. (And Hart was actually in Carleton Place, not Kingston. Their Amber Ale, especially on hand pump, is probably my favourite beer of all time.)

Aloha,

Brad

[ollie]

Do they still make Dragon's Breath IPA in Kingston? It was my fave when Hart had the license.

As far as I know' date=' Dragon's Breath IPA was just a Hart brand. They licensed the name from the Kingston Brewing Company (a brewpub); the KBC "Dragon's Breath" was a brown/dark ale. (And Hart was actually in Carleton Place, not Kingston. Their Amber Ale, especially on hand pump, is probably my favourite beer of all time.)

Aloha,

Brad[/quote']

Yes, I visited the brewery in Carleton Place but I was under the impression that they contract brewed Dragon's Breath IPA. i.e. I thought it was the same recipe. Regardless, that's probably my favourite beer of all time that I can't get anymore.

[bradm]

Brad I stand somewhat corrected. It seems like you're using Peters thesis fairly stringently. The problem is that you keep referring to buyer behaviour in the domestic market not the broader aspect of why an international conglomerate would want to buy up a brand and their proprietary recipes/ bottling/ distribution facilities.

I think they'd buy up a brand for the same reason a big domestic brewer would: market share.

According to

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/toronto/story/2006/07/31/sleeman.html

there are four possible buyers: Molson Coors (which I still consider Canadian/domestic), Labatt's, Royal Grolsch NV of the Netherlands, and Sapporo Breweries Ltd. of Japan.

Neither Grolsch nor Sapporo has any presence in or share of the Canadian beer market. If they buy Sleeman's, they instantly get 7% of the market, for very little work (certainly a lot less work than it would take to grow to 7% market share from what they have now). And yes, they'd also get bottling and distribution facilities along with the brands (and recipes, and know-how, and employees), which they (presumably) could use to get their other products into wider production and distribution in Canada.

(I don't think we're that far apart on this, zero, especially as, as you correctly noted, there is a "top-down" corporate approach to considering the issue, as well as a "bottom-up" consumer behaviour approach.)

Aloha,

BRAD (Beers Really Are Delicious)

[SteveThe Owl]

Everybody, stop being hysterical There are plenty of fine beers still brewed independently in Canada.

If you want to support someone in the Ottawa area, there is Heritage Brewing now in Carleton Place.

And remember, there really is no such thing as bad beer.