Contested Symbols

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

And what better place to start than Colorado.

Colo. Subdivision Bans Wreath Peace Sign

By ROBERT WELLER

The Associated Press

DENVER - A homeowners association in southwestern Colorado has threatened to fine a resident $25 a day until she removes a Christmas wreath with a peace sign that some say is an anti-Iraq war protest or a symbol of Satan.

Some residents who have complained have children serving in Iraq, said Bob Kearns, president of the Loma Linda Homeowners Association in Pagosa Springs. He said some residents have also believed it was a symbol of Satan. Three or four residents complained, he said.

"Somebody could put up signs that say drop bombs on Iraq. If you let one go up you have to let them all go up," he said in a telephone interview Sunday.

Lisa Jensen said she wasn't thinking of the war when she hung the wreath. She said, "Peace is way bigger than not being at war. This is a spiritual thing."

Jensen, a past association president, calculates the fines will cost her about $1,000, and doubts they will be able to make her pay. But she said she's not going to take it down until after Christmas.

"Now that it has come to this I feel I can't get bullied," she said. "What if they don't like my Santa Claus."

The association in this 200-home subdivision 270 miles southwest of Denver has sent a letter to her saying that residents were offended by the sign and the board "will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."

The subdivision's rules say no signs, billboards or advertising are permitted without the consent of the architectural control committee.

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.

November 26, 2006 8:50 PM

Edited March 26, 2007 by Guest
Thread Heading

[Kanada Kev]

That's pathetic. "Land of the Free"?

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.

UGH!

"will not allow signs, flags etc. that can be considered divisive."

The subdivision's rules say no signs...

Nothing considered "divisive"? You live in a fucking subDIVISION ! Ironic.

Later . . .

Kanada Kev =8)

[meggo]

[d_rawk]

^-- oops

Oh no ... somehow I had managed to push the "war on christmas" bullshit out of my mind, and this brings it all crashing back in.

Another holiday season with O'Reilly?

Kearns ordered the committee to require Jensen to remove the wreath, but members refused after concluding that it was merely a seasonal symbol that didn't say anything. Kearns fired all five committee members.

Gawd that's lame.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

That's what democracy looks like in the early 21st century, I guess. Isn't that sort of what happens in the Harper government, too?

[ollie]

Isn't that sort of what happens in the Harper government, too?

Why do you hate Canada?

[phishtaper]

the PC Police banned it for a couple of years, but just as long as I get my Starbucks Christmas Blend, im happy.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Isn't that sort of what happens in the Harper government' date=' too?[/quote']

Why do you hate Canada?

I hate "Steve's" freedom.

[Birdy]

That's what democracy looks like in the early 21st century, I guess. Isn't that sort of what happens in the Harper government, too?

please expand!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Cheap dig . It's more of a "members of my government will agree with me or they don't count" kind of comment.

[timouse]

Cheap dig . It's more of a "members of my government will agree with me or they don't count" kind of comment.

...or Steve's new mantra....

"everyone is entitled to my opinion."

[Birdy]

Cheap dig . It's more of a "members of my government will agree with me or they don't count" kind of comment.

well at least you recognize the cheapness of it all!

[phishtaper]

hmmm, no wonder they banned the decoration. look closely at the window. pure evil.

[StaggerLee]

Whatever happened to "Peace and goodwill toward men?" (and women)

[ollie]

Whatever happened to "Peace and goodwill toward men?" (and women)

(and the Québecois... you know who you are!)

[Birdy]

Whatever happened to "Peace and goodwill toward men?" (and women)

i think it's alive and kicking... it just seems to get covered up by a cloud of political correctness. equality is a good thing, but our method of achieving it or better yet, how we all think to achieve it SUCKS! we've been reduced to a bunch of bumbling idiots who can't speak because some human rights hotshot will take case against us!

equality, in a way, has stripped us of our individuality.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

it just seems to get covered up by a cloud of political correctness.

I find it's always important to remember that "political correctness" was a tag created on the left for the left, to keep people's tendency towards whitewashing language in check. The right, of course, have been the ones to pick up and run with it.

As Jello Biafra said, if people want to call themselves, e.g., "womyn", then let them, and respect that, "just out of fucking respect."

equality, in a way, has stripped us of our individuality.

Equality? I'd say the kind of thing you're talking about has more to do with identity, which is a destructive concept.

[ollie]

it just seems to get covered up by a cloud of political correctness.

I find it's always important to remember that "political correctness" was a tag created on the left for the left' date=' to keep people's tendency towards whitewashing language in check. The right, of course, have been the ones to pick up and run with it.[/quote']

"Political Correctness" and "PC" are my least favourite words of the past 15 years. The phrase should be an addendum to Godwin's law.

Coincidentally, I remember Biafra talking about the subject on Much Music back in '90ish. He was talking about a Newsweek article and how it had co-opted the term to smear what it also called "thought police" on college campuses, hippies basically. Hey -- another mischievously co-opted term! (cue California Uber Alles)

[timouse]

Whatever happened to "Peace and goodwill toward men?" (and women)

(and the Québecois... you know who you are!)

[Birdy]

it just seems to get covered up by a cloud of political correctness.

I find it's always important to remember that "political correctness" was a tag created on the left for the left' date=' to keep people's tendency towards whitewashing language in check. The right, of course, have been the ones to pick up and run with it.

As Jello Biafra said, if people want to call themselves, e.g., "womyn", then let them, and respect that, "just out of fucking respect."

equality, in a way, has stripped us of our individuality.

Equality? I'd say the kind of thing you're talking about has more to do with identity, which is a destructive concept.

i think it's all balled up into one these days. things like equal opportunity and the ensuing legal battles that seem to be rolling out of the courtrooms because certain groups take whatever equal opportunity is supposed to mean to entirely new levels, wherein it becomes a matter for say, the Supreme Court of Canada to handle and someone is the victim not for wrong doing, but for something they can't control, ie, their ethnicity, etc. Language police telling us what words are appropriate and inappropriate, women's groups lobbying for special recognition for women, native's groups lobbying for special recognition for natives, quebec well... it's all in the name of equality, disguised by the term 'identity'. why the need to belong to some group with special recognition? why can't you be you and me be me and we carry on merrily? it just seems that the more attention governments give these groups (even though they're attempting to do right by this attention), the worse the situation(s) become. you say yes to one group, inevitably you're saying no to another.. problems arise!

this isn't to say the civil rights movement or the development of the charter of rights and freedoms, etc. was the wrong step to take... no. it's just what our response to this has been. we're playing the 'rights' card left, right and centre these days.. it's getting a little ridiculous and i think we've taken it too far. stop already with the special recognition, stop with the language police, stop with the "I HAVE A RIGHT" speech, it's destroying us.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Because people fuck each other over when they can get away with it, that's why.

Civilised society should allow that?

Might makes right?

Seriously! Maybe North Americans should just go back to, say, restricting public office to white, properties, Protestant, adult males, fer Chrissakes!

Edited November 29, 2006 by Guest

[d_rawk]

You're feisty tonight! :laugh:

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

FUCK!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

(I just summarised this thread for CJ qua "that bold, italicised thing I get when I drink scotch."

On a more sober (!) note - Birdy - I don't think my sense of "identity" quite across. I'm with those folks (e.g., Adorno, Habermas, et al.) who think that thinking in terms of identity is a pathological means of complexity-reduction that begins with science and comes to term in the Holocaust.

When I'm finished reading to the kids, I hope to put this across a bit less abstractly .

[Birdy]

Because people fuck each other over when they can get away with it, that's why.

Civilised society should allow that?

Might makes right?

Seriously! Maybe North Americans should just go back to, say, restricting public office to white, properties, Protestant, adult males, fer Chrissakes!

wowza.

just to reiterate and perhaps clarify, i never once implied what you're referring to in the last part of this quote, nor would what i would want to see happen, result in that.

wow!

i don't see this evil world vision that you seem to see doc! i don't think human beings intend to "fuck each other over when they can get away with it"... i think human beings have been undergoing a major learning process as time goes on and along the way have had to learn a hell of a lot of hard lessons, but we're not going to fuck each other over when we can get away with it!! MANKIND is RESPONSIBLE for the civil rights movement, for progressing towards bettering ourselves so that we can ensure that we DON'T FUCK each other over! knowing this, how can you be so pessimistic about our nature?? throughout time, we have learned from our mistakes and progressed to the state we are eventually now in.. what i am saying, is that it's now time to PROGRESS even further and realize that for damn sure, the civil rights movement was a GOOD THING, but now it's time to see how we can make it even better, to look at it's flaws and expand so that we can live in an even better harmony!! that's what i'm talking about... critically examining something, even when it's so good, is necessary. i would think a person who seems to think everything as inherently flawed, would agree.