That damn muddy sound.....

[Dr. J]

Be forewarned ....I don’t know where I’m going with this and the answer may be obvious or irrelevant but....

I’ve been reading with much interest the reviews of the Ryan Adams shows. Great reviews (thanks folks!) for a great artist (glad to hear he seems to have his shit together these days).

One of the things that intrigues me is the discussion of the sound. I’ve commented before on how I’ve gone to shows to hear the same band in the same venue on the same equipment with the same sound person and one time the sound would be great and another it would be awful.

I’ve also been at shows where I’ve thought the bass and drums were absolutely pulverizing everything else and I would be standing beside the sound board and wonder…..don't they realize the sound is a sea of mud? Why wasn’t this picked up during sound check?

I’ve also experienced what Ad and Bouche experienced.

Bouche said:

AD made me wonder if I was deaf. Muddy sound was not something these ears experienced so either I'm deaf or there was a difference in sound from one side to the other. We were stage right.

Like them, I put it down to where I was situated in the room in relation to the other person. But I don’t know that that’s the answer.

I’ve been at shows that have gone from being muddy to clear and nothing (to my knowledge) has changed in terms of tone and volume (and I’ve done nothing to alter my own physical state hehehe that I'm aware of) but something has changed. Is there something in our mood/mental state/chemical balance that keeps us at certain times from distinguishing certain sounds (like a pedal steel) or being able to handle certain other sounds (like bass and drums)?

In other words is “good sound†totally dependent on external factors (acoustics, levels etc) or is there something internal (in our physical make-up) that at times can adjust and filter etc and at other times cannot????

Just curious. Maybe I should stop cursing the sound people.

[bouche]

Let's start with what we had in our bodies.

- Tasty Tuna sandwich and onion rings.

- 4 beers.

What'd you have AD?

[AD]

Bacon Cheeseburger and adrenaline

[bouche]

adrenaline.... like red bull?

where was the bacon cheeseburger from?

[hamilton]

I've always felt that the sound at an outdoor venue improves after the sun goes down. Someone told me that it is because the reduced temperature means that the air is less humid, and so sound travels more easily. Someone else told me that it is just psychological. I'm no science guy, so I'm not sure. Maybe Tungsten Gruvsten can tell us the answer...

[AD]

adrenaline.... like red bull?

where was the bacon cheeseburger from?

no, i was just excited. Red bull is ass. bacon cheeseburger from harvey's in Hudson. Fries. Root beer.

What are we talking about again?

[Weirdness]

The thing about the sound check is that you don't have all of those bodies in the room to absorb sound so you never really know what the room is going to sound like until it's full. The sound check seems to generally be about making sure that everything is working properly and is balanced and then once everything starts up then it's a whole different scenereo. The truly great sound people can somewhat guess at what the room will sound like when it's full but that's pretty tricky given the fact that every venue is different but it's the great ones that can quickly tweak the sound in the first 10 minutes to not be boomy or lacking in highs etc. Just like great players, there are great sound people who can work their magic in any room and with limited resources in some cases. I always thought that Sam Leonard who used to do The Slip's sound was really brilliant, that guy could do a great job with what would appear to be not a lot to work with in a room which was definitely not engineered for sound.

[Dr. J]

I quite agree that a good sound person (why are there no sound women?) can work miracles and the great ones can do it within the first 10 minutes of the show.

That doesn't account for two people being at the same show and one describing the sound as muddy and the other describing it as clear (I'm not specifically referring to Ad and bouche, although that's one example) and I'm not sure simply being in different parts of the venue totally explains the difference, although it might.

Hamilton raises the point that the determination of "good sound" might in part be psychological which is interesting.

[bouche]

maybe if AD had gone to a different Harvey's, things would have sounded differently?

[AD]

maybe if your brother wasn't grinning ear to ear the sound wouldn't have bounced my way off his teeth so much.

[phishtaper]

I've always felt that the sound at an outdoor venue improves after the sun goes down. Someone told me that it is because the reduced temperature means that the air is less humid, and so sound travels more easily. Someone else told me that it is just psychological. I'm no science guy, so I'm not sure. Maybe Tungsten Gruvsten can tell us the answer...

you are right, sound does actually travel better outdoors at night when the air becomes more humid. sound travels almost 5 times faster in water than in air. its how you can hear your neighbours at the cottage from way across the lake at night because of the heavy still air. you also hear it better at the show because winds also die down when the sun goes down.