ATF disrupts skinhead plot to assassinate Obama

[Thorgnor]

This one's too rich for me.

[Birdy]

whatever.

insult away!

[phishtaper]

insult away!

[color:purple]Your Mother Was A Hamster, And Your Father Smelt Of Elderberries

[d_rawk]

If there is an underlying association of nazis and assassination plots -- it's absolutely fuÇking insulting on all counts. Not to go on a crusade or anything, but it is. I don't really think, considering the sensitivity of the subject, anyone should find it even in the slightest bit appropriate as ribbing material. Disgusting is an understatement.

Ok. I'll defer to that. My assumption was that KK wasn't really trying to draw that parallel (and I still assume that, I guess), but I understand that the suggestive connection is volatile enough to warrant feather-raising (pun not intended, but I'll leave it). And Lord knows I've gotten my hackles up about similar things.

[edit:] I should have just stopped at 'I'll defer to that'. I don't know how to shut up.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Guest

[Thorgnor]

Day 58 of Steve Harper Slam Watch:

Stop Making Fun Of His Sweater!

Geeez.... Quit It!

couldn't resist.

[Thorgnor]

Day 59 of Steve Harper Slam Watch:

He didn't hijack the Liberal promise to come up with a thirty day plan after the election, are you guys blind? He is spending 45 days!

Damn Leftists!

[SmoothedShredder]

Fack... I know how fun it is to poke fun at Harper...

You do this though cause you think you have the high ground for some reason. But it is clear that for some reason there is a foundation of hate here... and even when it squeaks through in some 'funny' comparison... it's still hate. I suppose what I'm saying is that some of you seem all to eager lower yourself to the level of that sniper holding neo-nazi (via hate)... instead of putting Harper down to it. This isn't about Harper, it's about you, and the ridiculous amount of hate that shows here. It's sad. Really sad. Sure you all have each other to pat on the back, and laugh at your own jokes. But this one crossed the line. If I took it as an obvious, albeit totally irrational jab at Harper, others would too. But if you want Harper gone... it's people like me you have to convince. Your hate pretty much makes me want to turn 180 degrees and run. All I'm trying to do is have you convince me on my terms that your alternative is better. Hate is never better. And that's why I have to equate this to some school yard nonsesne. But you guys really aren't 5-10 years old are you? Pathetic... And no... Rick Mercer would never put that picture on the screen, point his little extenda-pointer at it and say "looks like this guy and Harper have the same stylist"... and if he did... he would lose his job. And I would be happy... but Mercer isn't a idiot...

My point is, when you clearly lower yourself, your arguments against the guy become thin and useless. Infact... by Goodwining this Assassinate the Black Presidential candidate thread into, lets criticize the elected leader of Canada... I really don't know what the motive is outside of some schoolyard bullying.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that if there is any hope for any of us... it's going to come when there is a conscious effort to work together, and to minimize the hate in the world... the comments made by some skanc around here just fuel the hate fire... making it more of a problem than a solution.

And Schwa, if you don't think it's important... then I don't even know where to begin. Have fun laughing with your gang about someone who's a little sick and tired of seeing all this hate being thrown around like Canada was some horrible place to live. Fucking entitlement.

I don't hold much hope of convincing the bully's in this thread that they should feel shame for what they said, and the connections they have put forth... but it is clear it is wrong. It is clear it is disgusting... and if you want to ever change the minds of those that don't agree with you... this is probably the worst possible method (the bully) to appeal to them.

Kevs tactics crossed the line, and criticizing me, and my honest reaction to it does nothing to change that this argument you all seem to support is grounded in little more that hate... which does not impress well. And the only doctorine grounded in hate that can gain power is one of fear... and you hippies are usually to passive to ever gain any real power. Must be frustrating... and explains alot of why the comments come as they do.

You all probably think I'm a card carrying member of the CPC or something. Truth be told, I've never voted for the guy (but voted, yes)... and no, I don't think he's the bee's knees as a person. But with the alternatives available, it does not surprise me in the slightest that he's been chosen as the best choice out of what was available. I'd love to see a viable competitor... but if these are the ideas coming from the grass roots of the opposition... then it's going to be a long time before a non-fear based alternative will present itself. The majority of Canadians are better than that... and I still hold that as a truth.

So... I heard there was an assassination attempt on Obama. Fucking sad isn't it?

edit:

Sorry, Schwa, you deleted your comment after I read it. Thank you.

Edited October 29, 2008 by Guest

[ollie]

I don't hold much hope of convincing the bully's in this thread that they should feel shame for what they said, and the connections they have put forth... but it is clear it is wrong. It is clear it is disgusting... and if you want to ever change the minds of those that don't agree with you... this is probably the worst possible method (the bully) to appeal to them.

I'm still confused. Can you list the bullies in this thread and what they typed that they should be feeling shame about? I'm not being facetious at all here.

Kevs tactics crossed the line, and criticizing me, and my honest reaction to it does nothing to change that this argument you all seem to support is grounded in little more that hate... which does not impress well. And the only doctorine grounded in hate that can gain power is one of fear... and you hippies are usually to passive to ever gain any real power. Must be frustrating... and explains alot of why the comments come as they do.

Seriously, who the hell is a hippie around here? What does that word even mean?

I think you make too many assumptions.

[SmoothedShredder]

I guess if you want names... it would be Kev's intitial comment, and some of the stuff DJ and Phishtaper said. Schwa's, "Don't get your panties in a bunch" comment certainly didn't help... but I can see it's gone now. Now both DJ and Phishtaper have backed off a bit, but where is the guy who started this in the first place? Still think you're hillarious Kev? Please use another picture to base your response around... they are soooo hilarious.

I have no problem with Hals attempt to refocus the debate on the thread topic... but the others felt the Harper angle was far more important to wedge open. Why?!?!

Hippies and Hypocrites I usually equate as the same thing. Someone who says Harper is no good because he does X, and then turns around and does X themselves.

[ollie]

Thanks for the clarification. However...

I have no problem with Hals attempt to refocus the debate on the thread topic... but the others felt the Harper angle was far more important to wedge open. Why?!?!

I was the first reply to Hal and I was back on topic. The next reply was from you and you're the one who went back to the Harper angle.

[SmoothedShredder]

It was hopefully going to be my closing argument. I'll admit Schwa's comment (now deleted), and Theo chomping at the bit, as well as the continued attempted at trying to label all of this as 'light' and 'funny' and 'not to be taken too seriously', made it important for me to attempt to state clearly what this thread now represented to me.

It's funny how one liners seem to cause the most damage. A picture is worth a 1000 words right... but what words? And with not much else said, what kind of conclucions do you think people draw when they see a picture of a Neo-nazi with the words Stephen Harper right underneath it.

I think it's important that the distinction is made that Stephen Harper ought not to be the first person connected to a picture of a Neo-Nazi in a thread about the attempted assaination of a presidential candidate.

[SmoothedShredder]

Hippies also equal the "hard left" that I read in the Heather Malik article in another thread.

[phishtaper]

SS, why do insist on stupidly calling some people here "hippies"? do you have any idea what any of us do for a living? do you know any of us personally? your ignorant presumptions about others here, our political and social agendas, our motives, etc. is truly amazing.

clearly, you were offended by Kev's initial quip about a photograph of someone who, by many accounts here and elsewhere, appeared to be possibly wearing eye make up. he recalled an earlier quip that many have made in the past here and elsewhere about harper wearing eye make-up. for you to read anything about nazism into that quip was YOUR interpretation. it certainly wasnt mine - I did not equate harper with being a nazi and I have stated that.

is yours the only true interpretation of the original comment? can noone else here have a legitimate, different interpretation of either the comment or the photo?

you explained your offense and people have respected your views on it. but they have also defended themselves that how you saw it was not their intention. that you are unwilling to let go of your original - and since evidenced incorrect - interpretation of someone else's comment speaks volumes about an inability to engage in dialogue.

and "hate"? wow. who the hell are you to say that we are full of hatred? if any single comment in this thread is unmistakably offensive, that one is!

sorry man, you took offense to something that wasn't meant to be offensive. fair enough. but don't slam the rest of us for not seeing the world as you do.

[SmoothedShredder]

So this is all about eye make-up... riiiiiiight. If you don't see the bully tactic in it... there's no way I'll ever convince you now.

I didn't say 'full of hatred'... but it is clear it is there. Hidden behind the fear, and the name calling and pointing. Lingering in the shadows of the schoolyard insults many felt fine about throwing his way. That's where the bully tactics started from. Also, the fear of the power Harper holds, no solution to get him out of power, and the desire to bring him down a notch, instead of rising to the occasion on your own. Principles I clearly don't share. Just doesn't seem very enlightened. Hence the hypocracy... all I really read it as is "I hate Harper"

And I suppose I hate hate. I see it as a road block to what everyone seems to really want. A good government with people we can respect. I suppose we really do get the government we deserve. Any criticism of Harper at this point, and at these levels of intellegence go completely against that end... and we are all worse off for it. I wish it would stop... but it's clear I'm not very compelling.

It's not so much important to me that there are other ways of interpreting it... just that the slippery slope was presented in the first place.

And yes... I probably know most people on the board personally. Four years working (paying to work) for grassroots Canadian Bands in Toronto has allowed me to put many names to faces from the board. I stand by what I said. And it's not the rest of the world I need to communicate with. I'm talking to who I need to talk to.

Wasn't meant to be offensive? You should work for the McCain Campaign... how naive can you be? How can that be spun in anyway to be a positive? Unless you take comfort in your little club that I like to call Hippie.

Besides... this all kind of rests on Kev's shoulders at this point. He opened this can of worms, and has since slinked off.

Phishtaper... I can respect your defence of 'having fun' I just don't respect the tact presented in this thread.

Kev did wrong. He has a right to do wrong, and everyone has a right to defend him... but I don't have to like it.

[SmoothedShredder]

And I don't think anyone here really thinks Harper is a Nazi... but why fucking put that comment with that picture.... one reason. Stupidity.

[ollie]

Didn't Stephen Harper bully his way to victory over "wimpy" Stephane Dion? I wish I'd read you criticizing him so vociferously for that during the election campaign.

I always thought it was fear that hid behind hate, not the other way around.

[Tissue Man]

I can't believe the over reaction to a comment about make up..

fuck. take it easy.

[ollie]

And really, how can you support the leader of a party that gives a home to Cheryl Gallant if "hate" bothers you that much?

[SmoothedShredder]

Two wrongs don't make a right. And what happened to Mulroney when he picked on Cretiens 'uniqueness'. Like I say, I'm not supporting Harper per se... just really tired of seeing the techniques used to bring him down. They don't help get the end that I read so many of you desire. I'm saying if this keeps going on... none of us will ever get what we want.

[phishtaper]

Besides... this all kind of rests on Kev's shoulders at this point. He opened this can of worms, and has since slinked off.

No, SS, YOU opened this can of worms by incorrectly interpreting a bad joke and beating this dead horse with all sorts of bullshit about bullying and hatred. but i guess that's just the hippie in me talking - whatever the fuck that means.

and "slinked off" ... wow. you sure like to see and spin things your way and only your way. perhaps he's, oh i dunno, busy?

[SmoothedShredder]

I can't believe the over reaction to a comment about make up..

fuck. take it easy.

It's not just about make-up.

[Tissue Man]

I can't believe the over reaction to a comment about make up..

fuck. take it easy.

It's not just about make-up.

nah im pretty sure thats what it was.

[d_rawk]

So now hateful stupid hippies. I take offense to all three charges, and have actually been (in relative terms for this site, I guess) defensive of Harper and it is on record in these forums that I wanted to see a Conservative minority under Harper.

I have already deferred to your and Birdy's strength of opinion on the more general subject, so I'll refrain from commenting on the rest of what is written.

[SmoothedShredder]

Me too. Apologies for taking offense to the original post. For getting worked up and goaded in to defending/explaining what I read into it, and for saying things people don't like hear about themselves.

It was stupid of me to expect any better from what I was trying to say. I guess I forgot why I stopped posting around here for so long. Thanks for the reminder.

[phishtaper]

[color:purple]hmmm, that didnt sound all that sincere