Ticketmaster defends resale site

[tweezer2001]

[color:blue]I really hate Ticket Bastards !

Ticketmaster defends resale site

By Keith Leslie, THE CANADIAN PRESS

http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/2009/01/02/7902156-cp.html

TORONTO - Ticketmaster says it is providing consumers with better protection through its resale site TicketsNow, which offers concert tickets at many times their face value, but consumer advocates say such a setup should be illegal.

People who log on to Ticketmaster's website looking to buy tickets for concerts, plays, sports or other special events often find themselves automatically redirected to TicketsNow - which Ticketmaster purchased in Feb. 2008 for US$265 million - just minutes after the tickets go on sale.

"It seems to people it's instantaneous and they've never had a fair shot," said Ticketmaster vice-president Joe Freeman, who noted tickets for high-demand events can sell at up to 14,000 per minute.

"It's as fair a system as we've been able to come up with short of having people wait around the block in the freezing cold, as used to happen in the good old days."

The Consumers' Association of Canada said it has received many complaints from buyers who don't like being directed to a resale site owned by Ticketmaster that charges much higher prices for the same tickets they couldn't buy through Ticketmaster's own system.

"It's a conflict, it's a monopoly, it's unconscionable," said association vice-president Mel Fruitman. "It may not be illegal, but it sure is immoral and unethical as far as I'm concerned."

Freeman insisted that Ticketmaster does not hold back tickets for TicketsNow, nor does the resale site get special access to tickets. He said the resale site is available to any broker or individual who wants to sell tickets.

"We are giving absolutely no preferential access to ticket brokers or anyone affiliated with TicketsNow to get tickets," he said. "We're not diverting tickets to TicketsNow."

Ticketmaster does get a slice of the increased price from tickets sold on TicketsNow, in effect giving the company two sets of service charges from each ticket sold and then resold.

"That's a fair statement," Freeman said. "It's accurate, but it's apples and oranges, because the service charge off the initial sale is almost always shared with the venue, the promoter or the team."

The consumers association complained that Ticketmaster even charges customers to print a ticket on top of its service charge for the same ticket.

"You pay for them not paying to print the tickets," Fruitman said. "They don't have to incur a printing cost, and I've got to pay for that?"

Fruitman also said Ticketmaster's near monopoly on tickets sold at most major venues in Canada and the United States may be broken next year as contracts come up for renewal, with promoter Live Nation already announcing plans to sever its relationship with Ticketmaster in 2009.

Ticketmaster received complaints after an AC/DC show in Vancouver sold out in minutes, only for tickets to be quickly available for higher prices on TicketsNow. The resale site also charged up to $1,199 for a $44 face-value ticket to a recent Killers concert in Toronto - roughly a 2,500 per cent markup.

Tickets for many events are rarely priced at their full market value, said Freeman, who noted many people are used to buying tickets at higher prices from scalpers on the street without any guarantees they aren't counterfeit.

"If you're buying a ticket from a guy under the overpass by the Air Canada Centre, you don't know if those are going to be valid tickets until you're in the door," Freeman said.

"We're trying to bring a much higher level of consumer protection to the whole resale space."

The Canadian Press was shunted back and forth between three Ontario ministries as it tried to learn if Ticketmaster's ownership of TicketsNow violated the province's law against reselling tickets above face value, and was eventually told complaints should be taken to police.

"If there are those who are concerned about it, or have identified some issues, they should refer them to the police so they can investigate," said Attorney General Chris Bentley.

"I'll certainly make sure that my colleague Minister Takhar knows about it as a consumer protection issue that I'm sure he'll want to take a look at."

However, the office of Small Business and Entrepreneurship Minister Harinder Takhar referred calls about TicketsNow to the Ministry of Government and Consumer Services, which promptly redirected calls to the attorney general.

Toronto police say they have received no complaints about Ticketmaster's ownership of TicketsNow.

Freeman said even though Ticketmaster is confident it does not violate the resale law, the company believes the law is outdated and doesn't reflect the realities of the Internet age or the law of supply and demand.

"You and I both know there is a thriving ticket-broker industry ... so the law is really a fiction," he said.

"We very strongly feel the law needs to be modernized to reflect the reality of Internet commerce. By keeping a price cap in place, you're really just driving the (resale) business into the shadows."

[bouche]

That's rich. The vice-president of the company is saying this trash?

"If you're buying a ticket from a guy under the overpass by the Air Canada Centre, you don't know if those are going to be valid tickets until you're in the door," Freeman said.

"We're trying to bring a much higher level of consumer protection to the whole resale space."

Freeman said even though Ticketmaster is confident it does not violate the resale law, the company believes the law is outdated and doesn't reflect the realities of the Internet age or the law of supply and demand.

"You and I both know there is a thriving ticket-broker industry ... so the law is really a fiction," he said.

[SaggyBalls]

I wonder if this ethical dilemma will be solved in the next 2-3 years.

[p.p.]

BULLSHIIT!!

They say they are trying to protect you from buying fake tickets. If you buy a fake ticket, it serves you right for buying from a scalper. Ticketmaster should not be supporting reselling tickets for higher prices period. It's wrong!

[p.p.]

oh yeah... and good on live nation for pulling out, although surcharges will just go elswhere, like "Blockbastard".

[Kanada Kev]

Gotta love how TB tries to "justify" their bullshit. My buddy finally got out of there the other week (he was given a package as they were downsizing even more so good luck getting any decent help on the phone if you have a problem). He said he could write a book with the stories he could tell (i told him he should).

Anyway, just got word that they are going to be doing a piece on this TicketBastard situation on Marketplace (CBC) this Friday night.

SECOND STORY (called BUSTED): Marketplace's Erica Johnson reveals Ticketmaster is not just selling concert tickets once, but sometimes twice. It has it's own reselling website.

http://www.cbc.ca/marketplace/

[phishtaper]

maybe im just naive, but i really do not see how this practice can possibly be legal. and if it's a loophole in the law, let's close it.

perhaps TB is banking on the apathy of ticket buyers to complain.

hats off to marketplace for shining some light on this dark practice. hopefully, the program may help change things.

[bouche]

we've had this discussion here before...months ago. I didn't actually think that there would ever be a public uproar and media coverage over this swindle. I have a feeling this could turn into a fun bit of news to follow.

history of threads:

Ticket Broker Popup discovery in 2002!

Scam talk

discussion about the purchase of Ticketsnow by Ticketmaster

[Basher]

The only "public uproar" that would have any impact would be people not buying resale tickets.

That ain't gonna happen.

[bouche]

what? this doesn't qualify as a public uproar?

The Consumers' Association of Canada said it has received many complaints from buyers who don't like being directed to a resale site owned by Ticketmaster that charges much higher prices for the same tickets they couldn't buy through Ticketmaster's own system.

they said MANY! that is more than one.

[SaggyBalls]

what? this doesn't qualify as a public uproar?

Said by:

The Consumers' Association of Canada said it has received many complaints from buyers who don't like being directed to a resale site owned by Ticketmaster that charges much higher prices for the same tickets they couldn't buy through Ticketmaster's own system.

they said MANY! that is more than one.

the Consumers Association of Canada??

they seem like an association that would be easily paid to not bring this up to the media and lawyers.

[phishtaper]

the Consumers Association of Canada??

they seem like an association that would be easily paid to not bring this up to the media and lawyers.

and you are basing this on what?

[Cully]

I still want to get one of these shirts...

[arcane]

It stinks.

The fact that they can claim innocence by saying they don't give sales preference to specific resellers is a red herring. The fact is that their business model is based on the expectation that a pool of people will buy from them and then give them a second payment to resell through their services. They make their money with the first sale, and the rest is low-risk gravy skimming.

That they don't name specific people doesn't change the fact that they are aware of a pool of people (even if they don't know exactly who) willing to go along with this skimming exercise ... otherwise, I seriously doubt that they would have built the site in the first place.

If they're going to behave like a wholesale operation, then they shouldn't be allowed to position themselves as a retail monopoly. That's the real crime: They are a monopoly, and they're using that to profit not just once but twice.

Simply put, have a look at the supply and demand curve. They've used service charges to skew the price point upward by being a monopoly, they're making as many sales as is theoretically possible at that price point (we're looking at a sell-out situation, remember), THEN they're going back and taking a cut off the HIGHER part of the cost curve. If you have scalpers driving up the price even higher by buying up resales and putting them back on the market at a profit, then Ticketbastard can keep collecting gravy for what it sold out as a monopoly in the first place. (Can someone tell me if the resale site allows this? I haven't looked that closely, but I could see scalpers wanting to do that.)