The Chameleon Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) I have never seen such a flip-flop in my life. Steven Harper is so desperate to cling to power he will do anything. I think it's pretty pathetic that it takes the threat of a coalition government for him to do anything for the average and disadvantaged Canadians.The budget is an improvement, but I'm not sure if it is enough.What do you guys think? Edited February 1, 2009 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 It's time for Canada to step up and put measures through to transcend money in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wooly Mammoth Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 the budget shows absolutely no vision. this was an opportunity to do something and they didn't take it. the problem is that it's not quite bad enough for the Libs to not support it. i like Iggy putting the cons on probation though! the coalition may have been bad in the LR for the libs. his proposals hold the gov't accountable and if they screw up the Libs will be much stronger in an election. the globe had a very good editorial on the budget on Wednesday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I see the Gov't falling in March with the "update" which I assume will show that the C's have done nothing to implement the social housing or EI reforms and we'll have an election. Keep an eye out for moves that are meant to galvanize the support of the right for this Conservative party and Liberal fundraisers knocking on your door. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Budget is exactly what the press has stated...a red/liberal budget dressed in conservative blue...almost every sector is promised some sort of monetary relief...instead of pushing a few buttons the Cons have pushed all the buttons hoping that they won't lose power...kind of like Homer playing "ini mini miney moe" at the power plant A few good things are that the Liberals are actually being a strong, focussed opposition and holding the government accountable...they actually are running the country...it's a Liberal Budget and they're controlling the Conservatives...the Liberals are calling the shots and it isn't a Con/Liberal coalition as Layton claims...what an arse I've heard several people say that they don't even recognize Harper or the party they voted for as he's done a HUGE 180 flip flop to hang onto his position...pathetic...who wants a PM who sells his soul so quickly to keep his weak clutch on a crumbling party... Layton and Duceppe are no better, condemning the budget BEFORE it was presented?!?! So glad that a coalition wasn't formed with those twits... It'll be the next few generations that will feel the effects of what is taking place at the moment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Don't be so sure we won't see it too, sadly.I've lost a lot of respect for Layton over the past year or so, but I've always known Gilles to be a fascist/neo-nationalist so I expect very little from him in the way of consistency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Wooly Mammoth Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Harper has pissed off his core with this budget. but I assume they'll back him in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Core? Is that Canadian for Base? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I've lost a lot of respect for Layton over the past year or soCBC Newsworld ran an audio clip, highly critical (in vague generalities and "derived" criticisms, such as pointing out supposed motivations, rather than criticisms of specific items in the budget) from an ad the NDP just started running, and it struck me as being driven by seriously sour grapes: since Ignatieff won't be voting against the budget, that means the Conservatives will remain in power, which eliminates any (current) chance for a coalition being asked to govern, which means the NDP are shut out of the game. I expect that the coalition is pretty much dead, too, from the way Layton is criticizing Ignatieff.Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 Layton steps down, the guy from BC steps in, it's on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Newfoundland Liberal MP vows to vote against budgetST. JOHN'S, N.L. -- A Newfoundland Liberal MP says he will break party ranks and vote against the federal budget if necessary, the second party member to do so.Scott Andrews, who represents the riding of Avalon, told VOCM Radio he is prepared to go against his party and oppose the budget if it doesn't protect $1.5 billion that the province is entitled to.Ignatieff won't say if he'll discipline N.L. MPs who vote against budgetLiberal Leader Michael Ignatieff has said he will support the Conservative budget, but he won't say if the party's Newfoundland and Labrador MPs will be punished for voting against it.A second Liberal MP said Friday he is prepared to vote against the document if it is not amended to resolve what some view as punitive measures against Newfoundland and Labrador.Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I think it would be a *really* good move to not censure MP's who dissent right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Isn't it entirely undemocratic to discipline someone for their voting choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 Isn't it entirely undemocratic to discipline someone for their voting choiceIt might be, but that's irrelevant. If those Newfoundland MPs choose to break a rule (party unity) they said they'd follow (by joining the Liberal Party of Canada and following its rules to run as a Liberal MP), the leadership of the Liberal Party of Canada is entirely justified in disciplining them.Aloha,Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 By joining the Liberal party, it doesn't entirely secure their vote. Party unity is not just a vote. If they were to, say, vote WITH another party regularly, or if it could be proven that they had other interests in mind during this vote then it would be understandable that they could be 'disciplined' for it, but that's a case of specifically breaking party file.It's not irrelevant that the democratic process would be jeopardized by their party, as this is the party that will most likely be next to lead this country. If this party leads the country under false guise of a democratic union then it would not only be a disservive to their rank and file, but also to the nation and every other nation that does business with and is under the thumb of our trade and any political vote that affects them.Not that we're the pivotal nation to hold together decency in the world, but we really SHOULD be, and it's plain to see that we have the opportunity to be.Party based voting is secondary to the rule of democracy and a vote for one's constituents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 I think it would be a *really* good move to not censure MP's who dissent right now. I concur.Isn't it entirely undemocratic to discipline someone for their voting choiceNo. Party affiliation is an affiliation of choice, made knowingly and democratically. It carries with it potential benefits and potential drawbacks. Party discipline is one of those potential drawbacks, and also one of the things that you sign on for. Was it undemocratic for the NDP to say that it would be inconsistent with the spirit of party membership for members to vote against same-sex-marriage when they did?I don't think that it was. Having identified it as an issue of fundamental human rights, the position couldn't have been otherwise. The Liberals looked awkward and out of step with their own policy at the time -- how can it be an issue of fundamental rights and decency but *also* be fine for it to go one way or the other? There is no gun to anybodies head to remain part of a political collective. There is nothing undemocratic about such a collective having a baseline of shared values being a prerequisite for membership (See: Bev Desjarlais)Nobody can tell any member of Parliament how to vote. A party can, however, run their membership list as they see fit. The soul of democracy is preserved in any account -- a vote by any MP counts as much as any other MP, whatever their party affiliation (or lack thereof). Nobody is disciplined by the house itself -- they may be disciplined by the company that they choose to keep, but only for as long as they choose to keep it.There are no guns to no heads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted January 31, 2009 Report Share Posted January 31, 2009 There are no guns to no heads. So... there are guns to some heads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 yup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chameleon Posted February 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I too have lost respect for Layton (who I did like in the beginning). He has shown himself to be a sore looser and just another politician desperate to gain power without a thought to Canada as a whole.All the losers are pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
can-o-phish Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 I too have lost respect for Layton (who I did like in the beginning). He has shown himself to be a sore looser and just another politician desperate to gain power without a thought to Canada as a whole.All the losers are pathetic.When the Coalition was formed one of my posts said something along the lines that Layton had nothing to lose but I was wrong as he has definitely lost the respect of many people and voters...what power he would have gained if a coalition would have succeeded would have been little as Dion would have been the leader...no way in hell could a coalition work with three captains at the helm all trying to steer the ship...at the time I thought that maybe a coalition might've been an alternative but if what we're seeing at this moment is how Layton operates when he doesn't get his way then thank gawd the coalition didn't happen...Layton...what a schmuck :crazy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted February 1, 2009 Report Share Posted February 1, 2009 So... there are guns to some heads? Heh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted February 3, 2009 Report Share Posted February 3, 2009 Ignatieff to let Nfld. MPs vote against budget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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