Phish - the final setlist -

[colinw]

I have just returned from Coventry. I didn't have to walk as far as most because I arrived halfway through the second set on Saturday due to previous comittements. I hiked the four miles and caught the last set and everything on Sunday.

I have read a few posts here and I am going to stop now because it is embarrassing how moronic some people can be. I feel bad for them. Everyone is entitled to free expression of opinion, but some people really need to step back and think for a moment before typing.

The shows were not the best ever. I have personally seen many better and heard lots much better. The fact that an uncontrollable element (rain) caused so much trouble was unfortunate. I have given a trememdous amount of time, money, and devotion to this band, and I would have walked 50 miles to see the last show, let alone the 4 I had to walk. The inconveniences of the rain, mud, walk, etc were just that - minor inconveniences. That is how I saw them for this show anyway. There isn't any other band I would do all of that for just to see on concert. There isn't another band I will ever do that for I don't think. Hopefully I'm wrong.

To totally slag the whole event and the organizers and band is very narrow minded. They did an incredible amount of work between days to make life better for us inside. They did the same type of thing at IT. I have been to all of the large festivals since the Clifford Ball and enjoyed them all. Why people are mystified by a traffic jam when 80,000 converge on a two lane road in the middle of nowhere confuses me? The crowd inside was pretty good for the mostpart, friendly and helpful as usual, and really into the show.

Sure, Trey wasn't at his best the whole time but he did play some beautiful tunes and played them well. Seeing Page choke up was tough for me. He has always been my favourite and seeing him so vulnerable actually made me sad as well. I wouldn't have like it if they played Gamehendge or any other old stuff just for novelty sake. People can take Fluffhead and shove it for all I care. They played a good selection of tunes and they had fun. They welcomed their family on stage, paid tribute to their outstanding technical and road crews, paid tribute to the fans, and their lives over the past 20 years.

After all of the fuss and everything else there is nowhere I would rather have been last Sunday evening.

I am actually happy the band is stopping. The whinny snotty kids who are taking over this scene are ruining it for everyone. Not only do they grab all of the available tickets but they go home and bitch about everything when they are finished. Pathetic. I have been obsessed with this band for the last 10+ years and I now will move on. They will be my favorite jamband for ever, and I am truely thankful for the experiences I have had in relation to Phish.

[MarcO]

[c-towns]

Mikes got pretty stubby fingers ay...

[zero]

I don't really give a flying fu©k about Fluffhead either for that matter. The fact is however that Phish has built a reputation, a following and a very lucrative career around precisely the kind of stunts and possibilities I am saying were lacking. I couldn't have gone if I wanted to but while we're on the topic even if I could it wouldn't have been healthy for me at all- I can't turn a blind eye to the dark side of all this and I'm sure I would have been filled with a lot of angst. I am glad in the end I didn't go and I am glad for my friends who were able to. It is nice to not be jealous about any of this. I do seriously think people need to give themselves a shake on this whole issue though. If people weren't as vocal (call it whiny if you want) and involved in this band they never would have risen to the point they have, they wouldn't have sold as many concert tickets, albums, merch and live recordings. This is the name of their game. I've been thinking about what MarcO said earlier about being more interested in the quality of the playing and wanted to speak to that for a minute. While there are likely tons of people like MarcO out there I am quite certain they are still a minority. Phish is in many ways a collector culture, they took the obsessiveness of nerds, gamers and collectible hunters and translated that into a commercial music movement. I don't mean primarily commercial over artistic but at very least an extremely profitable venture. I settled on a better way to describe this and it would be to compare a Phish show to an unopened pack of baseball cards. Like a kid who knows the value of cards you tear into a pack hoping to get a valuable rookie or an odd misprint. All of this is very much mitigated by supply and demand and sometimes amounts to cards that aren't all that appealing having great value despite not having all that much else going for them (see Destiny Unbound). If you tore into your pack of Coventry I think you rightfully had some expectations that you might get a real rare card a Mickey Mantle or Carl Yastremski even. Instead people ended up with an OPeeChee Ken Griffey Jr. instead of an O Kee Pah ceremony. I just don't see what the point in denying these high expectations that the band has helped to create. I am sure they must know how to play a handful of their older rare songs still and they most certainly know the fans wanted to hear them (what else keeps people on tour oh yeah the drugs). Trying to feign as if all of this is not true is disingenuous. Besides it's not as if the calibre of playing was even all that high to begin with.

[c-towns]

I disagree.

Phish is in many ways a collector culture, they took the obsessiveness of nerds, gamers and collectible hunters and translated that into a commercial music movement.

They've been playing for so long and have such a vast repitoire of songs, I'm sure there is a sh!t load of songs they don't remember or just plain hate playing. Also, I'm pretty sure they stopped reading press releases about themselves, and I'm sure they don't peruze the internet listening to the jackassery spread by ungrateful fans bitching about why they didn't play kung, and why character zero was played in a b minor instead of an e sharp.

justathought.

[Freeker]

Everyone that was there was supposed to be there, those that turned around and left do not deserve anything, they didn't deserve to go in the first place. They have no love for Phish just the party. Sure there are tons of exceptions, but if it wasn't for the cancellation Coventry would have imploded with all the extra people. I couldn't have been happier when I heard everyone was getting turned away...and I was one of them, 19 hours in line, no sleep and fu©king cranky as fu©k. The real fans didn't leave the real fans got sad, then got angry and then got creative. Fish said it best "the fact you guys walked all the way in here is the biggest compliment ever, thank you"

Coventry was amazing, it just wasn't easy. It tired every which way to break our spirit but collectivly we prevailed and the show went on. My only regret, besides following Bradm up Slog Hill "the quick way" was Trey's obvious drug problem, I understand why, he needed to calm down after second set, but it was sad to see him so filled with emotion and oxy...My one request is that Trey take this as a retirement, no side projects, no solo tours no bum fu©king Dave Matthews, JUST REST and get the help you so desperatly need because you're breaking our hearts....Do that and then maybe we will be happy just to watch you age.

Thank you Phish

[MarcO]

I deleted my earlier post. I was out of line to unload on a fellow board member like that, and I regret it.

My apologies, Jay.

[secondtube]

ahhhh...did i miss something...

[secondtube]

[FattyMagee]

Thanks for your review Colin (been waiting to see if you'd post one). I echo alot of what you have to say about the scene and the phans.

STAMOS

[Booche]

Thats some unepical rhetoric you are spewing there, Trevor.

[zero]

Do you notice there cowtowner how I make a measured argument using logical examples to support my points while all you do is ridicule the speaker. You haven't even addressed the content of what I have said which is plainly true on many levels.

What is wrong whatsoever with this statement:

Phish is in many ways a collector culture, they took the obsessiveness of nerds, gamers and collectible hunters and translated that into a commercial music movement.

I'm just curious but if Phish wasn't a collector culture why is it that people spend huge amounts of their disposable income on owning live recordings, merchandise, ticket stubs and merchandise. Maybe because they COLLECT the stuff you fu©king dink. People gather their memories of concerts and keep them on a shelf like a glass menagerie. Why would someone go to more than one concert in a row of a band if it weren't for the diversity and the chance they will do something unique or rare? The fact that people know if something was in key or not directly relates to the fact that Phish embraced taping culture, built an audience around that connection and fed the voracious appetite of the audience by planning their setlists for a long time. Live by the sword die by the sword. They knew they set the bar extremely high for themselves and could never outdo Big Cypress and that it was essentially downhill. Again very little of this is speculation just a reasonable assessment of their phenomena and business model.

Furthermore I don't know how I can be called ungrateful considering I didn't go to Coventry and haven't seen them in years. I am very grateful for the time that I spent seeing the band from '94-'97 and the very magical shows I was able to witness. That is the band I am connected to, the band that plays Icculus or Sanity once in a blue moon (what would have been so wrong with them dusting either of those off?), the band that covers an entire album, the band that makes a time machine for a new years show, that is my Phish.

Anyways why not try and actually construct an ARGUMENT. I swear to god cowtowner you are one of the most low brow dumb as fu©king sh!t frequenters of this board and the only reason you vociferously speak up against me is because I have offended you in the past- that is painfully transparent.

[tatterdemalion]

Here are some comments a friend sent me, which I thought captured the phenomenon that helps explain some of what's going on with Ph*sh.

For discussion: great jambands (or at least,

successful ones) seem to follow a discernable arc.

1. They are young and hungry and practice and play in

front of empty rooms in strange towns, crowded rooms

in their home areas.

2. They are less young, less hungry, don't need to

practice as much and play to strong crowds in most

towns. This is remembered as a "peak" period (Phish

just before Jerry died? Panic 1995?)

3. They jump to small arenas in the winter and sheds

in the summer. Sound and light shows must improve,

and the sound must change to fill the big rooms.

[first wave of old school fans drop out right here]

4. They figure out the logistical issues and develop

a new sound, hooking an entirely new set of fans to

replace the old schoolers.

5. They do a dominant big room tour in the winter and

solid business in the summer sheds. The scene changes

and the older folks pull in onto themselves with

private lists, message boards and so forth. This is

another "peak" period, though old schoolers now argue

about it (phish 1997?)

[second wave of fans drop out]

6. They get older, wealthier, practice less, write

fewer and less inspired songs, and keep selling

tickets. At this point, they are carrying a

corporation full of their friends and loved ones

through tour revenues, and are in something of a trap.

7. They do something to break out of it. Hiatus.

Quitting. Whatever. They want out from the

responsibility they have for the Corporation That Ate

The Band.

After that there's really territory that only the

Grateful Dead, the Allman Brothers, Phish, WSP and SCI

have entered. Phish is trying to respect their music

and their fans by understanding that, in the place

they are in life, they are only going to bat 30-50%

and they don't think that's good enough. That's my

read on it at least.

[c-towns]

Phish is in many ways a collector culture

Sorry, I cut and pasted to much, you are correct here.

they took the obsessiveness of nerds, gamers and collectible hunters and translated that into a commercial music movement.

I really don't think they "took" obsessiveness from anyone, I find it funny that rarely anyone thinks they're in it for the music and that its all about the money. The shows I've been to and the shows I've listened to, the band always seems so grateful by the feats their fans endure, yet there is always a bunch of a-holes not happy with something. This band doesn't owe anyone anything, they are there purely for your entertainment.I didn't realize I called you ungrateful, maybe you mis-read something there.

Anyways why not try and actually construct an ARGUMENT. I swear to god cowtowner you are one of the most low brow dumb as fu©king sh!t frequenters of this board and the only reason you vociferously speak up against me is because I have offended you in the past- that is painfully transparent.

I really expected something a little more intelectual from you. Calling me a "low brow dumb as fu©king sh!t frequenter of the board" seems a little "low brow" if you ask me, maybe I'd be better off hanging out on the ween forum ay?

I've never been offended by anything you've said, I just tend to not agree with the points you try and spoon feed the board population and I speak out against it, anything wrong with that?

So why don't you take off your fu©king crown o'king of the internet message board, and find yourself something to get those panties out of your ass you whiney bitch.

Sorry for the vulgarity everyone, but I guess I am pretty low brow.

(wheres the eye rolling smile when you need it)

[purple foot]

heh heh. lets get off the ween forum here. nothing says classy like a cokewhore vs. hooker thread.

I agree that there is a huge element of collector mentality with the fans, i mean you go to the bluegrass hub and some users share the entire phish catalogue. ummmm, share some bluegrass hippy! But I would argue the majority of the fans aren't there because of the music but for the "scene" and because they're young guys who toke weed and have nothing better to do than to follow the scene. so in that i guess it's phish's music that established that scene but i don't think its the music that keeps them coming for more. its the killer DOPE man!

[Esau]

so in that i guess it's phish's music that established that scene but i don't think its the music that keeps them coming for more. its the killer DOPE man!

And sadly,like the Grateful Dead (circa 93-94), it took its toll on the scene,eventually ruining it.

[dancingbear]

Personally I dont care what they play, just how. some fans though for sure are into the rarities. one of my favourite part of seeing live shows however is seeing tunes you previously were not into, then bam! hits ya....wasn't a fan of possum until got a raging one as an encore .

[zero]

I owe you an apology c-towns. I couldn't keep the kung back on that one. I got upset because I really didn't think I was saying anything that out of the ordinary. Glad to know you aren't or at least weren't offended and just taking up the opposing perspective. Sincerely though I apologize, I wasn't even very impressed with my slander. Like all of us I have deeply invested a good portion of my life with this band and I often wonder more and more at what cost. I am actually grateful in some ways that having a pot charge has kept me out of the country. I really think some serious harm could have befallen me on tour. I also think I'm further ahead with my life and career then I would be otherwise. Again though sorry.

[c-towns]

No worries dude, just keepin it (internet) real...

[zero]

Besides the fact that all they would have had to do is say or scream three words 'from the hills' and they would've played 'kung'. How fu©king hard is that. I seriously don't get these 'artists' (and in this case I use that word very loosely) that won't throw a bone.