Gay?

[Bill Shake]

Your debate on language is completely enthralling and brings me back to the days of tights and feather pens.

We'd often refer to the homosexuals as buggers in those days. Seems that that word is acceptable nowadays.

I'm off to judge the psychologically imbalanced and cure the buggers with the scientology methods Tommy has introduced me too.

[bouche]

brits call a pack of smokes 'a pack of fags'.

[MamaRed]

I think a bundle of sticks is called a faggot...a pack of tobacco sticks ...'a pack of fags'

It's cool that I burn fags and faggots all the time,right?

[bald guy in a blanket]

Mama,

It's interesting that you bring up burning.

Every definition of that word starts with the idea of burning. Small sticks used as kindling, smokes, annoying wives...does anyone think it's a coincidence what the word means now?

The word is violent and hateful. It's about nothing less than lynching--if you doubt that consider how it's used to marginalize and destroy peers in the schoolyard...among children.

(Interestingly--I once heard a child replace the "N-word" with "Faggot" in the Eeeny, meeny, miney, moe rhyme)

Anyone who pretends this word is "OK" or evolved is simply ignorant.

I'm not suggesting some sort of facist ban on the word, but it does reveal a lot about those who throw it around.

On to a response...

Hey.

I'm always amazed when people who are the "majority" (in this case not gay [or jewish?]I suppose)react to having their unfair advantage pointed out to them.

There's always this sort of offended expression followed by the accusation that the person who brought it up is somehow uptight or radical.

Like people are trying to spoil the party.

It makes people scared.

The myth of the political correct revolution was born out of this.

It's interesting.

Jef

Agreed' date=' bald guy. There are some responses to these arguments that defy all reason. One of them is the "go find something important to think about" response. How arrogant!

This is a message boards with many things to talk about. If you've found yourself in a thread that you find unimportant, move on, but don't be so obnoxious as to tell other people their discussion and concerns are unimportant. Unless you're just The Coolest Person EVER. Because if you're The Coolest Person EVER, than go ahead, I guess we should take stock in what you deem to be worthy of our debate or not. Otherwise, there's always the option not to contribute and go talk about how some music sucks or how Jerry Garcia burned out in the mid-1980's, or something enlightening like that.

[/quote']

so its not ok for me to say a discussion regarding verbal offense is unimportant(which i didn't, i said there are more pressing matters) but you can go right ahead and belittle my opinion on the matter? its the exact same thing. and then the "coolest person ever" personal attack, as well as the reference to jerry's bad 80s playing(also me) all i did was voice my opinion like everyone else(negative or otherwise) and you respond with personal attacks. seems like you're the one who needs to think about the things he posts.

its people like you who make me antisocial.

About this...I was just suggesting that straight white people have extreme difficulty understanding the difference between their cultural dominance and their own personal value. As a result these issues seem moot and unimportant.

If you think I'm wigging out on a crazy left-wing rant...ask a woman, any woman, how many times that she has been frightened standing with an unknown man at a bus stop and compare that with your own experience.

I didn't belittle you but I will gladly, loudly and publicly state that you are wrong.

And it IS significant that you took this point personally. It’s usually the first way that we (us straight whitey’s) respond to (and diffuse) being told that we claim or have too much dominance—when we all know (or should know) that we do.

Jef

[dJEd]

i'm well aware that i as a straight white male am on top of the foodchain. i'm just as likely to be shaking next to that woman at the bustop to be completely honest. as for being "wrong" if there is a set black/white right and wrong here, what exactly are we debating? my main point is that there are more important and pressing issues facing society, which is very true so if anything i am right.

anyway i may have taken that out of context and i'm writing quickly to make my point before i shower then leave for the fest so if i said something really stupid(not a big stretch) ignore it. (K)

[bald guy in a blanket]

Okay,

Simply...

A lot of us don't see problems because we innately assume that our experience is not "dominant" but universal.

While I believe there is right and wrong this issue has actual consequences for thousands every day.

We need to change.

Jef

p.s. I'm sorry about your bus stop problem

[StoneMtn]

my main point is that there are more important and pressing issues facing society, which is very true so if anything i am right.

I don't think the issue here was ever whether language is the most pressing issue facing society. I also don't think, however, that we must be precluded from discussing anything but the most pressing issues that face society.

This is an issue. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either being intentionally belligerent, or is simply unable to think through the implications of what we are discussing.

I agree that you are "right" that there are more pressing issues out there. So what?

[Lazlo]

I agree that you are "right" that there are more pressing issues out there.

Yah, like what the clour of my underwear used to be.

[timouse]

I agree that you are "right" that there are more pressing issues out there.

Yah' date=' like what the clour of my underwear used to be.

[/quote']

lisa: grandpa, what's your first name?

grandpa simpson: aaah! you're making my headstone!

lisa: no, grandpa, we're just curious.

grandpa simpson: i'll check my underwear. it has the answer to all of life's important questions.

[purple foot]

[SteveThe Owl]

Just because this interesting and informative discussion is gradually degenerating doesn't mean I have to contribute to the problem. But I will anyway:

Through the eyes of a child

The world seems magical

There's a sparkle in their eyes,

They've yet to realise,

The bastards they really are

The beauty of their smile

Adventurous and wild

Sure, life is kinda gay,

But it doesn't seem that way,

Through the eyes of a child

P.S. I tend to agree with bald guy in a blanket on many of his points here, particularly as he takes a sociolinguistically-oriented perspective. Good food for thought going on in this thread indeed -- dancingbear was quite right to have brought it up in the first place -- in spite of the occasional silliness. Please, however, stop abusing the 1980s TV icons. Except ALF, maybe.

Edited September 3, 2005 by Guest
typos; crazy figners

[SteveThe Owl]

By the way, an interesting piece to read related to this topic is "A Tale of Two Tribes: A Gay Man's Adventure in the World of Deadheads" by Edward Guthmann, published in The Grateful Dead Reader by David G. Dodd and Diana Spaulding. Haven't read it in a couple of years, but I recommend it.

[SaggyBalls]

people don't like to think of differences as challenges, but seem to glaze it over with a load of political correct hooey. there's a difference between being compassionate and following a set of ethical guidelines because of convention.

i just wish there were more biting stereotypes of guys that grew up in merrickville ontario sorts of places.

i think what we really need to understand is the issue is anger and inadequate mental focus...ignorance and the ability to be ignorant and have people write it off. why're they really mad in teh first place?

i betcha the guy's problem isn't that the jews control the weather...what's he gonna say...he haggis'd his buddy's sporan?

until we rid people of the desire to pass the buck or have a scapegoat us whining about some silly words and their context will do nothing to solve anything.

[Guest Low Roller]

brits call a pack of smokes 'a pack of fags'.

Yup. "Bumming a fag" has a very different meaning on this side of the pond.

[Blane]

Kinda cool to read though this thread at the same time as I go over a set of course readings on semiotics and textual analysis.

People who feel that words are "just words" and not worth getting excited about would probably do well to read some Barthes. Very interesting stuff. THere definately seem to be multiple camps on the where meaning is located in relation to words (in the author, the audience, shared, socially defined, etc.).

anyhow, carry on.

[arcane]

I prefer to use my own rude words and phrases. My current favourite is "pus wad."

I don't thing I'll stop referring to spectacularly broken things as being "elaborately buggered."

Am I the only one familiar with the origin of the word "denigrate"? I use it periodically to denote its current meaning, not its archaic one. Nobody has slammed me for it ... yet.

One of my favourites is the word "bastard." When I hear people use it, I sometimes reply with "Do you mean the self-made kind, or someone born that way?" It makes 'em stop and blink, which can be a good thing.

[bald guy in a blanket]

You know,

As words go it's hard to beat a well-placed "fuck" every now and again.

Good point, Canned Beats, about the ignorance of stuff and all.

Here's an interesting thing...when the world equalizes enough to have slurs about the dominant classes that actually hurt...we'll probably be enlightened enough to avoid them.

Jef