Birdy

I understand what you're saying about feasibility and I agree. I guess i'm just thinking along the lines of actually making such a thing happen - getting all parties on board type of thing. I'd have to agree with those environmentalists and industrialists who criticize the Tory plan. I suppose though i'm critical of every party's plan as our economy and livelihood is so heavily based on carbon. It's kinda scary. I wish there was a party who pledged money to industry to change now, saying that in (example) three years down the road, there's going to be regulation that could hurt you if you don't adapt. Changing the face of industry would be step one, and considering some aspects of industry are soo heavily hit at this point that they couldn't really afford to comply with such things like a carbon tax, i think it would be a good thing to help them out in this regard. I'd be ALL FOR using tax payer money to get our industry to go greener. I'm also opposed to government intervening in the price of gas. While I admit that I wince everytime i go to fill up and it costs me $55/$60, i think soaring gas prices are key to changing consumer behaviour, and that's a huge step in itself to decreasing our dependency on oil. I'd also want to see municipal governments create biking trails and walking paths and promote public transit, and educate citizens through mailings, ads on television, etc. about the positives of using these things in a time when it costs so much in terms of the environment and your actual pocket to operate cars. I want to see municipalities float money into green infrastructure and create things like roundabouts and car pool lanes. I would be absolutely cool if there were some kind of incentive and/or legislation which forced this upon municipalities... a study to how many citizens/how many cars are in a community - and then respond with a piece of legislation requiring this number of walking paths for this number of citizens or this number of roundabouts for his number of cars. That kind of thing. Municipalities, i think, have a lot of power when it comes to making green changes, and i wish they'd use it more. I remember when I lived in London going to school the city did a huge tree planting project in which every house in the city was given one tree. We all received notices in the mail that the municipality was going to come by and plant a tree on our property. I think that was super cool. You can specifiy where you wanted it to be planted, but it had to be done. Even if some people in turn ripped the tree out of the ground, I'd venture to say more stayed in. I wish there were more of this. I'd also be all for any type of legislation that demanded any new businesses to be a green workspace and a low polluter, and to further that, legislation that ensured that to be green doesn't gouge your pocket. I think the biggest problem right now is the price of environmentally-minded products and systems that is a major deterent to businesses and consumers. This needs to be rectified. I'd be all for an EBR, but i think we need to make certain steps now to innovate, change our consumers, ensure that we're not going to sink because of it, and then put it into place.

The only laws I would potentially feel ok about making un-repealable are those concerning their environment... but then on the other hand, what we know about the environment is subject to how far science has taken us. I agree with AD... i don't think it's really even possible to do this and i too agree with all the philosophical psitions against it.

What's the purpose of the environmental bill of rights Ontario has? I actually didn't even know of it until this thread and taking the initiative to google... anyone know? Do you think it would be better if this were a provincial matter over a federal matter? The environmental impact of legislation differs greatly across the country and maybe what works well in Nova Scotia wouldn't really do the same for Alberta... If Canada were only smaller!! fwiw, i really like the idea of an EBR, but i'm big on feasibility, and that talk is off limits.

Breaking story.

It was an overly productive day. I hear you and I cease my case. I'm watching 90210 and thinking it's the most ridiculous thing ever. Did Brenda get cheek implants? She looks different. My favourite part so far was the dramatic deletion of Dylan McKay's contact details on her cell phone.

Again, this has nothing to do with affordability. Maybe if i explained it along the lines of a person who can afford healthcare in the US, versus a person who gets free health care in Canada, that would better indicate my point. I don't pretend to be a fan of privatized healthcare, at all. All I am saying, is in a privatized system, they don't experience the kinds of problems we do (I do understand, they're not without faults). I just think there's a fundamental problem when you call something universal, have people pay a LOT of money in taxes for it to be universal, and then not have it be universal. I think there's things we can do about it, and I prefer that we did them. I would like to walk into a hospital and not have to wait forever, I'd like to be able to call a doctor and get a same day appointment and I'd like to be able to not have to worry for a month and half straight that I might have breast cancer. These things don't necessarily have to happen and I think it would be a good thing to be honest about the state of care and hope to make it better.

Safe travels!

Hahahaha... i honestly can't.

For some reason, I'm finding it really really hard to back down today. I guess you're just as irritated now as I was when you mentioned I'd probably like freedominion.ca better and then furthered that by saying those people are better than I am... so in that respect, I'm sorry. And honestly, if you want to keep a 'running tally' feel free. Whatever. Suggestion though - why a politics forum if you can't handle a different opinion?

But really, whatever. There's no point in us wasting a whole day bickering back and forth over this... I recognize that there is some good to our system, I think you've recognized the bad, and hopefully we can both agree that something should be done about that.

Yes, in my experience Ollie. I'm saying the fact that there exists shitty experiences, means our system doesn't 'rock'. I wasn't miscontrueing my point either. As I said in my reply to KK, regional healthcare was something the Harris government talked up quite a bit under the "Common Sense Revolution". How's that a misconstruction? And no, i'm not saying there's many examples of me not 'letting debate breathe' out there at all. I'm saying should you try to pull something up as an example, i'll show you differently.

I hear you! I'm all for investing in the system and making it better... never said I wasn't. Just PURELY commenting the actual sit down and administer shot side of their operation was a lot better than ours. The hospital I was talking about - Munson Medical Center is a non profit health care centre. Regional health care was a big talker for the Harris government when he started to cut funding to smaller hospitals... gotta drive to get it. I was just trying to irritate Ollie as he was digging into me. If you could cite examples, we could be here all day.

I hate the leafs. Vive le Flames!

AAAAAAAAAAGH! Ollie, i'm all about letting the discussion breathe. I brought up that I thought our healthcare system sucked, suggested things I'd like to change, things i thought were honest to god progressive and innovative and willing of debate. But you didn't focus on those, you focused on my first line. I'd much, much, much prefer to sit here and talk about how say, Singapore's health care system could apply to the Canadian way of life, but the last what? couple of hours have been you and me going back and forth in what is increasingly starting to feel like a bit of a lover's quarrel! hahaha... seriously though... maybe it's my choice of words that get you hung up, but you can't say I don't add variety to the debate. You just *SEEM* to ignore that variety... not to be mean, but that's how I feel. And sorry, no 90210 watching here!! ok... one episode.

I had more anecdotal evidence than you! haha... I think that's the reason ideology is called ideology. I vote the way I vote because they're (and the Greens) are the most aligned with my ideology. I think it says a lot of someone who can recognize their ideology as such, and think of how it can be best applied in a current situation. Which I think is what I do.

I'm not questioning the sincerity of anyone's opinions... i'm just saying this forum is largely left-leaning. Using the term regurgitation is by no means an insult, and if you want to look up definitions, here's the one I'd choose: Pretty much the SAME you accuse me of.

THANK YOU!!

Not by any means - my suggestions are noted in one of my posts above. Your inconsistency lies in you for the least three or so years, disagreeing with me on pretty much every level (for those that you commented on), why spout the libertarian message now? My libertarianism exists as an ideology, but like i said in a previous thread - due to what we have built up and rely on, the implication of it could be catastrophic. Kanada Kev's post sounded a little bit like the Harris days in Ontario... ironically, you agreed with him, calling it "common sense".

Sorry to repost, but that comment kind of irritates me. I'd be all for open honest talk about how to make things better, but sometimes i feel like i get it from all sides and the least i can do is come out, one arm swinging. I don't think it's unfair to say this place has a major bias, and for the most part (aside from a few glimmering, don't look at me, but i might like something the CPC does posts) a lot of what gets said in here is a little bit of regurgitation in different mouths. I think (hope) i try to explain my opinions, and think i do a really, really good job of weathering the opposition. So how 'bout we lay low on the low blows?

hahah... i just read this: How nice!! God forbid someone disagree with YOU! And you call Conservatives elitists.

Holy shit... talk about inconsistency! Volunteer medical recruitment committees, fundraising the shit out of us, hosting visiting doctors... etc. Well, i know Traverse City, MI has a population of 142,000 people and ONE of their hospitals is ranked in the top 100 in the US.

Guys you make it sound like Chatham is in the sticks in the middle of nowheresville Saskatchewan. The municipality has 110,000 people living in it, we're 45 minutes from Windsor and an hour from London. I think it qualifies as a 'city'... not a huge one, but still a city. I understand driving for care is a reality, not having a doctor doesn't have to be one, not having more than one walk-in-clinic because there's no doctors in town doesn't have to be one, not having BASIC cancer treatments in an area with 110,000 thousand people in a day and age where 1 in 4 people get diagnosed with cancer doesn't have to be one, waiting for three months for a cat scan or 6-8 hours in the emergency room doesn't have to be one. There's absolutely nothing here that would cause a brain to go mush. I kinda view it as common sense.

Ollie, i wasn't talking about systems, i was talking about quality. I said a scroll or two down the page that I don't support privatized care, but you can't argue the care Americans (those who can afford - how's that bone?) is much better than what we receive. I said i support those who want to fix it. Sometimes i think you pick on me just to be argumentative. There's absolutely nothing inconsistent about what i've said here. NOTHING. Nor is it 'inconsistent' that I mention the whole plagiarism thing is an act of desperation. It is. We're two weeks out now, it's mud slinging. Everybody's guilty of it, but fact of the matter is, is that the mudslinging ONLY gets brought up in this forum if it's of the anti-harper variety. Don't accuse me of things i'm clearly not. I don't like dirty politics, so i'm not going to post any of it in here. But please bet on me commenting when others do. Critics even accused Martin Luther King, Jr. of plagiarism over the "I have a dream" speech. I'd venture to say the Libs were sitting on that one for awhile, waiting for the perfect moment to let it loose. I can say that, because it's a REALITY. Or I guess, would you like me to put in a disclaimer that the Conservatives do the same thing?? Just to be fair? C'mon.

oops, that was in response to the article Bradm posted Ollie. This isn't about affordability. It's about the actual level/quality of care provided. I don't honestly 'get' how you can vehemently disagree over this.

*GASP* What a burn! If anything is the sure tell sign of desperation.