Cryit out had seriously worked at creating a routine with him. At first he would fall asleep on top of us watching tv and thats what it took to get him down. Then it became harder and harder to do that so we had to try something new. The method worked at creating a new routine after only 2 to 3 days. It was hard as a parent but we trudged on through. That was 6 months ago. Now, itys a whole new story. I value all the suggestions and ideas everyone, thank you. One thing that has worked the last couple of nights has been to cut out the second nap in the daytime... we are gonna roll with this for a bit and see what happens. Cheers, Bob