Reminder: The Beatles remain the best band ever.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

The Dead were a jug band ("Mother Mcree's Uptown Jug Champions") before Garcia & Pigpen and some other guys went to see "A Hard Day's Night" in 1964. That made them turn to electric, hence "The Warlocks". Then, "hello LSD!" and the Dead were born.....

ok, and didn't the Beatles go through a acid stage as well?? Hmmm, wonder who influenced that??? Might have been the fact that a band that influenced a "small" community were playing for some 600000 odd people in Upstate New York... Not only that--- the Dead still play--- before Jerry died some 2700 live shows!! Jerry--I am the Gratest!!! and hey, didn't Jerry win the survivor series?? and didn't Marco vote for him??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????? :: ::

[MarcO]

The Dead were a jug band ("Mother Mcree's Uptown Jug Champions") before Garcia & Pigpen and some other guys went to see "A Hard Day's Night" in 1964. That made them turn to electric, hence "The Warlocks". Then, "hello LSD!" and the Dead were born.....

ok, and didn't the Beatles go through a acid stage as well?? Hmmm, wonder who influenced that??? Might have been the fact that a band that influenced a "small" community were playing for some 600000 odd people in Upstate New York... Not only that--- the Dead still play--- before Jerry died some 2700 live shows!! Jerry--I am the Gratest!!! and hey, didn't Jerry win the survivor series?? and didn't Marco vote for him??? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????? :: ::

I voted Garcia off in favour of George Harrison.

do your homework.

I'll let someone else refute your other convoluted points. I don't want to be greedy.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

well, oh, I was thinking of the previous round... well, you should have known better than to leave George up against "Sir

Jerry" ::

[TimmyB]

well, oh, I was thinking of the previous round... well, you should have known better than to leave George up against "Sir

Jerry" ::

George Harrison has not only influenced more people than Jerry Garcia, Harrison has influenced more professional musicians than Garcia.

Funny how that group that Jerry Garcia was in actually covered songs by the Beatles. I don't remember too many times when Harrison covered a song by the Grateful Dead.

[Lazlo]

They're both dead who cares. Have a coke and a smile and shut the fu©k up.

[TimmyB]

They're both dead who cares. Have a coke and a smile and shut the fu©k up.

I care.

If you don't like what you're reading then don't bother checking out this thread.

[hamilton]

ok, and didn't the Beatles go through a acid stage as well?? Hmmm, wonder who influenced that???

Not the Grateful Dead, that's for sure. The Beatles were already doing acid by the time Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band came out, and that was in June of 1967 - too early to be influenced by the Grateful Dead.

Might have been the fact that a band that influenced a "small" community were playing for some 600000 odd people in Upstate New York...

If you're referring to Woodstock, it was more like 400,000 people... and the Grateful Dead were far from being the main draw at that festival. Jimi Hendrix and The Who, to name just two, were much, much higher profile acts.

I mean, I love the Grateful Dead with all my heart, but c'mon - The Beatles were the greatest musical band to ever walk the face of the earth. Cease your futile arguing to the contrary. ::

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

actually The Dead were touring before 67...

and secondly, the concert I was referring too was at Watkins Glen 07 28/73

hey, I respect all of your opinions, but in my world the Grateful Dead are the Gratest band. (and no, that is not a spelling mistake)

[hamilton]

actually The Dead were touring before 67...

and secondly, the concert I was referring too was at Watkins Glen 07 28/73

hey, I respect all of your opinions, but in my world the Grateful Dead are the Gratest band. (and no, that is not a spelling mistake)

Right... they were touring central California before 1967. I guarantee that they had no influence on the Beatles. They didn't even make it to the East Coast until summer of 1967, roughly the same time that Sgt. Pepper's was being released.

Secondly, the Watkins Glen show in 1973 occured over three years after the Beatles broke up.

Sheesh. You're entitled to believe that the Grateful Dead were a better band if you want to, but get your facts straight, brah.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

actually The Dead were touring before 67...

and secondly, the concert I was referring too was at Watkins Glen 07 28/73

hey, I respect all of your opinions, but in my world the Grateful Dead are the Gratest band. (and no, that is not a spelling mistake)

Right... they were touring central California before 1967. I guarantee that they had no influence on the Beatles. They didn't even make it to the East Coast until summer of 1967, roughly the same time that Sgt. Pepper's was being released.

Secondly, the Watkins Glen show in 1973 occured over three years after the Beatles broke up.

Sheesh. You're entitled to believe that the Grateful Dead were a better band if you want to, but get your facts straight, brah.

First, I didn't realize that music ended when the Beatles broke up?? ::

and second, Acid came from the Acid tests, which were discovered by the pranksters, who had which band playing at their parties??? ::

[paisley]

I don't trust neither of ya

::

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

I don't trust neither of ya

::

better watch your back Paisley you cheeky bastard!

[hamilton]

First, I didn't realize that music ended when the Beatles broke up??

Never said it did - and, of course, it doesn't. But, back over here:

ok, and didn't the Beatles go through a acid stage as well?? Hmmm, wonder who influenced that??? Might have been the fact that a band that influenced a "small" community were playing for some 600000 odd people in Upstate New York...

... you're basically saying that the Watkins Glen show somehow had an influence on the Beatles... which clearly isn't possible, since they had already broken up.

and second, Acid came from the Acid tests, which were discovered by the pranksters, who had which band playing at their parties???

Wrong. I mean, the bit about the Pranksters being connected to the Dead is right, but you're way off on the LSD thing.

From

www.encyclopedia.com:

LSD was developed in 1938 by Arthur Stoll and Albert Hofmann, Swiss chemists hoping to create a headache cure. Hofmann accidentally ingested some of the drug and discovered its hallucinogenic effect. In the 1960s and 70s it was used by millions of young people in America; its popularity waned as its reputation for bad trips and resulting accidents and suicides became known. In 1967, the federal government classified it as a Schedule I drug, i.e., having a high abuse potential and no accepted medical use, along with heroin and marijuana . In the early 1990s it again became popular, presumably because of its low cost. It is produced in clandestine laboratories.

Soooooooo...... no. LSD was available long before the Acid Tests.

I'm too tired to do it know, but perhaps tomorrow I will tell the tale of how the Beatles were taking acid in '65, and a certain "doctor" friend of theirs. Or maybe MarcO will do it better justice. We'll see.

[hamilton]

And ya know what? I don't trust paisley one bit, either...

[paisley]

the acid tests started up in 65 as well but the pranksters started up before that

It all started in 1959 when Ken Kesey decided to volunteer his body to the government. He participated in the first Acid Test and brought it to the people not long there after. While attending Stanford University as a graduate

student Kesey tested psilocybin, escaline, and amphetamine IT-290. LSD was legal during this era .and was also tested on the writer.

After Kesey wrote One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest he had the money and clout to form a group of followers. His group became known as The Merry Pranksters, and reached legendary

status with the induction of Neal Cassidy. Neal was a hero of the Beat era from the book On The Road by Jack Kerouac. A great site to learn more on Ken is here.

After Kesey formed his group he went to San Francisco and came up with a new venture film making. He loaded up the bus and rented a dancehall to have what would be known as The Acid Tests. The Merry Pranksters wanted to make a film about what was happening at the moment. They decided to give an Acid Test at the Fillmore auditorium in 1965 with Rock music played by a live band. The band who played the test was a tough R&B band from Palo Alto named The Warlocks... Who changed their name to The Grateful Dead not long after.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

ahhh, thanks Paisley you beat me to it... ::

[paisley]

still not saying Jerry took John, Paul, George and Ringo into the Strawberry Field though ::

if the beatles hung out with anyone like that back then it likely would've been Leary (on the east coast)

[color:"EDEDE2"]~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[color:"EDEDE2"]~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

[hamilton]

Okay, you guys wanna play hardball?

The very first Acid Test was held by Ken Kesey on the 27th of November, 1965 in Santa Cruz. Check it out. Fact. On a related note, the Warlocks didn't play until the first Acid Test held in San Francisco, probably during the first week of December.

The story about the dentist spiking the tea of John, George, and their wives with LSD is believed to be anywhere from February to spring of 1965 - before the recording of Rubber Soul, let alone Revolver - and far before the first Acid Test... although in this Rolling Stone interview, John Lennon doesn't argue that it was as early as 1964...

How did you first get involved in LSD?

A dentist in London laid it on George, me and the wives, without telling us, at a dinner party at his house. He was a friend of George's and our dentist at the time, and he just put it in our coffee or something.

When you came down, what did you think?

I was pretty stoned for a month or two. The second time we had it was in L.A. We were on tour in one of those houses, Doris Day's house or wherever it was we used to stay, and the three of us took it, Ringo, George and I. Maybe Neil [Aspinall] and a couple of the Byrds - what's his name, the one in the Stills and Nash thing? - Crosby and the other guy who used to do the lead. McGuinn. I think they came, I'm not sure, on a few trips. Peter Fonda came, and that was another thing. He kept saying [in a whisper], ``I know what it's like to be dead.'' It was a sad song, an acidy song, I suppose. ``When I was a little boy'' . . . you see, a lot of early childhood was coming out, anyway.

So LSD started for you in 1964. How long did it go on?

It went on for years, I must have had a thousand trips. Literally a thousand, or a couple of hundred? A thousand - I used to just eat it all the time.

[paisley]

right on, easily believable... have read a story somewhere of the Beatles visiting Leary's pad (Electric Koolaid?) and another of one of them being interested in what was going on with the San Fran sound pretty early on... if you'll peruse my last post you'll actually see I was already pretty much agreeing with you, hardball ::

as I see it (hear it) the Dead and the Beatles didn't really steal much from each other, but probably liked what each other were doing... I say we get Paul McCartney to join The Dead for summer tour and see what happens

[hamilton]

Heh-heh-heh... that's what happens when you go and make another post while I'm spending 20 minutes composing my reply to the previous one!

The Beatles (or at least some of them) did meet Timothy Leary at some point in time. I was Googling like crazy to find a date on that one, but couldn't. (On a related note, how long until "googling" shows up in the dictionary?) They definitely knew him by 1968, but I couldn't find a specific link relating to their first encounter with each other.

Interestingly, George's confirmation of John's story in the following Creem interview from 1987 says that the acid the dentist gave them had actually been supplied to him by Leary (indirectly)...

Don’t you ever feel guilty about being the one who turned the Beatles on to LSD?

It wasn’t really me. Let me tell you what happened: I had a dentist who invited me and John and our ex-wives to dinner, and he had this acid he’d got off the guy who ran Playboy in London. And the Playboy guy had gotten it off, you know, the people who had it in America. What’s his name, Tim Leary. And this guy had never had it himself, didn’t know anything about it, but he thought it was an aphrodisiac and he had this girlfriend with huge breasts. He invited us down there with our blonde wives and I think he thought he was gonna have a scene. And he put it in our coffee without telling us—he didn’t take any himself.

Anyway, all of this silliness is simply to refute number 2's point that the Grateful Dead, as mind-blowingly-awesome as they are, influenced the Beatles, 'cause they didn't... whereas both Phil Lesh and Jerry Garcia are on record as having said that, despite initially being unimpressed by The Beatles, A Hard Days Night (1964) turned them into big fans.

[MarcO]

Garcia: "..... (we) played anyplace that would hire a jug band, which was almost no place, and that's the whole reason we finally got into electric stuff.

RS: Whose idea was that?

Garcia: Well, Pigpen, as a matter of fact, it was Pigpen's idea. He'd been pestering me for a while, he wanted me to start up an electric blues band. That was his trip . . . because in the jug band scene we used to do blues numbers like Jimmy Reed tunes and even played a couple of rock & roll tunes, and it was just the next step. And the Beatles . . . and all of a sudden there were the Beatles, and that, wow, the Beatles, you know. Hard Day's Night, the movie and everything. Hey, great, that really looks like fun.”

- Jerry Garcia, Rolling Stone interview w/ Jann Webber & Charles Reich “Garcia: A Signpost To New Space”

"You know, I went to Haight-Ashbury [in 1967], expecting it to be this brilliant place, and it was just full of horrible, spotty, dropout kids on drugs. It certainly showed me what was really happening in the drug culture. It wasn’t what was I thought of all these groovy people having spiritual awakenings and being artistic. It was like the Bowery, it was like alcoholism, it was like any addiction. So, at that point, I stopped taking it, actually, the dreaded Lysergic. I had some in a little bottle, it was liquid, and I put it under a microscope, and I looked at it, and it looked like rope, just like old rope, and I thought I’m not going to put that in my brain any more."

- George Harrison, Beatles Anthology

E.C.: Speaking of the long reaching effects of the Dylan/Beatles meeting - you suggest that the psychedelic movement in music was one result. What about the other bands of 1966, which had what you could call "psychedelic" music? Or do you mean that Sgt. Pepper single-handedly "popularized" psychedelia, while Dylan's influence was more subtle (like his influence on the Byrds - on of the bands that went psychedelic in 1966)?

Al Aronowitz: All the copycats went to great lengths to come up with gimmicks that would allow them to claim originality, but they all were influenced by the originals. With even so original a band as then Grateful Dead, Jerry Garcia told me the idea of his band was inspired by the Beatles, Dylan and the Beat Generation, a nexus for which I claim to be the invisible link.

http://earcandy_mag.tripod.com/alaronowitz.htm

[AdamH]

There were clearly two schools of acid-taking at that time. The "let loose and go wild" school preached by Kesey and the Pranksters, and the "Explore one's inner self, harness its power" school preached by Leary. One got high and banged on strange instruments, the other one read ancient manuscripts and sat cross-legged. If you read accounts of participants from both sides it's clear that students were both gaining equally, even though the two groups did not get along (Was it in one of the recent Garcia biographies were they talk about visiting Leary's mansion and getting all creeped out by the seriosuness of the thing?)

Either way it's offbase to suggest that the Dead influenced the Beatles in that period of time. The Dylan and Leary connections on the East Coast are much more likely to have done that, and I think the Dead's influence is being highly overstated here.

[Booche]

"highly overstated"

Hahahahaha, I get that!

[MarcO]

one could make a loose connection of influence by Pink Floyd on The Beatles, who were recording "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" at Abbey Road during March of 1967, exactly the same time the Fab Four were down the hall recording "Sgt Pepper's". And during this time, John and Paul attended a Floyd "happening" at Alexandria Palace in London.

But The Dead, no way.

[hamilton]

one could make a loose connection of influence by Pink Floyd on The Beatles, who were recording "Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" at Abbey Road during March of 1967, exactly the same time the Fab Four were down the hall recording "Sgt Pepper's". And during this time, John and Paul attended a Floyd "happening" at Alexandria Palace in London.

But The Dead, no way.

[color:"purple"]But dude, the Dead also played at Alexandria Palace - for three nights!!! I mean, that didn't happen until 1974, but don't tell me that didn't influence the Beatles...

::