Bob Lefsetz on Trey

[boogieknight]

some interesting points......

Why the fuck is Trey Anastasio's new album on Columbia? If this isn't a

record crying out for independent release, what is? I always thought his manager,

Coran Capshaw, was brilliant, but I'm going to need an explanation on this

one. Maybe Trey should have called Howard Kaufman, and put out the record

through his network. Making three to four times the revenue on each disc sold.

Jimmy Buffett only went to the Universal empire when he wanted to have a HIT!

When he needed that infrastructure. What the fuck is Columbia going to do for

Trey that's worth leaving all that money on the table?

Oh, maybe Trey's delusional. He thinks he's actually going to have a hit.

Yeah, right. As if a decade plus of history hasn't disproved THAT theory.

And where exactly does Mr. Anastasio plan to HAVE that hit? Top Forty? Unless

he's going to get Jay-Z to rap on his record, that's never going to happen.

And it's not like his music is Active Rock friendly. And AAA is a marginal

format that can't sell tonnage.

The only people interested in buying "Shine" are fans. And based on the tour

numbers Trey's putting up, that's a dwindling base. Because Phishheads

perceive that Trey broke up the band on a whim. That it was presented as a group

decision, but really wasn't. And they're unhappy about it. Sure, the main

creative force remains, but the CULTURE is gone. Never underestimate the value

of culture. God, Mick Jagger could never have a solo hit.

Then again, Phil Collins was more successful than Genesis. And Sting has

done quite well without the Police. But their careers were sustained on HIT

SINGLES!

I say bring the old team back. Which Trey will eventually do anyway. Once

he finds out that people aren't interested in his solo works, just the brand.

Own it. You don't get everything you want in life. Beef up the original

band. Like Talking Heads. Add players, work within the confines of the

structure. Or end up David Byrne. A footnote in history and completely irrelevant

today.

Why do acts have no balls. Why can't they stand up to the system. Are they

getting bad advice, or just that dumb. Or just that afraid. God, they take

risks with their music but when it comes to business, political views, they put

up their hands and say no. They don't want to stick out from the crowd.

Don't want to hurt their image. When their success is BASED on putting forth

their ideas. Makes no sense!

Then again, maybe Trey knows his solo career is going to be a failure. And

he likes the Columbia advance. That would be kind of sad, but he wouldn't be

the first money-grubbing "artist" out there, primarily interested in being paid.

But Phish were different. Phish was establishing a new culture. Of bands

playing MUSIC! With their careers built on the road. God, Phish NEVER sold

tonnage. Even though they tried. God, you'd figure Trey would be happy that his

deal was over with Elektra. So he could take ALL the money. But no, he just

goes and makes another deal with the man.

My understanding is Dave Matthews re-upped with RCA because they gave him his

masters back. Columbia can do no such thing for Trey Anastasio. So what's

the deal?

Believe in yourself Trey. Be the guiding light for musicianship. Show us a

new way. To build an independent enterprise outside the corrupt major system.

This is who we thought you were. We were wrong.

[TomFoolery]

Who's Bob?

[Del]

Awesome.

[Booche]

Here's what he has to say about Ryan Adams

[MarcO]

and on the same page is the Phish head resume.......

[bouche]

Is this guy forgetting that the Phish scene was a little big and getting outta control? Who says Trey needs big crowds, or wants them?

Yeah, and who the hell is that ranter!? Creds? Evidence for his rant? fack.

[MarcO]

how was the Phish scene getting too big?

[Del]

how was the Phish scene getting too big?

[peipunk]

Where's the thread with the link to the Trey interview where he talks about things spiraling a bit out of control? Talks about Phish having a 2000 person guest list at Coventry, I don't remember details but I thought it was a great interview that would be relevant to what Bouche is talking about.

Edited October 27, 2005 by Guest

[Tooly]

i can see where the scene got way too big.

that resume is golden though, my fav point was

-Splitting Open and Melting, when appropiate

[bouche]

don't ask for evidence from me. I just remember that lotsa young kids showing up for the party with no sincere love for the actual music was a big concern among many real phans.

[Del]

I just remember that lotsa young kids showing up for the party with no sincere love for the actual music was a big concern among many real phans.

Could you not say the same thing about the jam scene in general?

[Del]

To quote maxwebster:

"It used to be a scene, now it's about being seen..."

[deranger]

i can see where the scene got way too big.

that resume is golden though, my fav point was

-Splitting Open and Melting, when appropiate

I agree, best part of resume.....plus Chris Robinson stash joke.....

[MarcO]

People talk of Phish like they were absolutely massive, with thousands upon thousands people begging to get into every show. Not true at all. The were big in the US Northeast. Not U2 big. Not Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band big. Not Keith Urban big, or Neil Diamond big. They could sell out a number of Northeast venues with some regularity and at one time those tickets were relatively red-hot (1998 > 2000, 2003 Winter tour) but that is about it. Put them in Arizona or Oregon and you'd have a nice evening with about five to ten thousand people. There were some exceptions to this, but that was generally the rule.

Come the late 1990's they averaged about 50 gigs a year, representing not even two months out of a year playing live. They were signed to a contract asking for one new album roughly every two years. What a strain. Excuse me, but aren't they musicians? Isn’t this the life they chose for themselves?

Of course the big draw was their yearly festival. Hardly at the Glastonbury Faire scale of things but impressive and manageable. Again, if you really wanted to go, you probably could.

I fail to understand how taking a band on the road for three weeks at a time two or three times a year plus a yearly festival is so unmanageable. Just don't get it. It doesn't matter how many people are on the guest list. Any guest list can be pruned. The bunk drugs all those selfish spermwastes were jamming into their hairy stupid faces was not the bands' responsibilty.

Seriously, Phish seemed big but were relatively small. Their influence and effect on those that experienced them may have profiund implications but in the real world of ticket sales, corporate structure and workload they actually had quite a manageable situation on their hands.

[Booche]

You cant compare the 'bigness' of Phish to anyone but themselves. It obviously wasnt manageable for them. Trey himself dropped hints throughout his career with the band. As for the drugged out wooks that were on the verge of death every night, they felt a responsibility towards them whether you want to believe it or not. A close a dear personal friend knew Bart (head of security or whatever position he held) and we heard right from the horses mouth that the band took issue with being the conduit to over-doses. I can only assume I heard the truth.

[thatpatguy]

Who's Bob?

Since BradM is partying it up down in Vegas this week I'll fill in, at least for this thread:

from http://www.rhino.com

specifically http://www.rhino.com/rzine/columnists/lefsetz/index.lasso

Bob Lefsetz, Santa Monica-based industry legend, is the author of the e-mail newsletter, "The Lefsetz Letter". Famous for being beholden to no one, and speaking the truth, Lefsetz addresses the issues that are at the core of the music business: downloading, copy protection, pricing and the music itself. His intense brilliance captivates readers from Steven Tyler to Rick Nielsen to Bryan Adams to Quincy Jones to EVERYBODY who's in the music business. Never boring, always entertaining, Mr. Lefsetz's insights are fueled by his stint as an entertainment business attorney, majordomo of Sanctuary Music's American division and consultancies to major labels.

[Del]

You cant compare the 'bigness' of Phish to anyone but themselves. It obviously wasnt manageable for them. Trey himself dropped hints throughout his career with the band.

Mike said no...

[MarcO]

You cant compare the 'bigness' of Phish to anyone but themselves. It obviously wasnt manageable for them. Trey himself dropped hints throughout his career with the band. As for the drugged out wooks that were on the verge of death every night, they felt a responsibility towards them whether you want to believe it or not. A close a dear personal friend knew Bart (head of security or whatever position he held) and we heard right from the horses mouth that the band took issue with being the conduit to over-doses. I can only assume I heard the truth.

any excuse to get off the treadmill I guess.

I guess the answer to saving all those drugged out losers from themselves was to attempt to do a 2-month 30-city Zooma tour, or headline an all-night Bonnarroo set. No drugs there.

Gimme a break. It's not like the paramedics were pulling dozens of kids out of every show.

[Booche]

If you try hard enough, you can find reasoning in any decision you make. I cant argue with that.

If Treyter were still with us, I can pretty much guarantee he would say the reason all this is happening is because Mr Egostasio desperately wants a pop hit because that has been one of his life goals.

[gentlemonkey]

Maybe he felt he could never attain that level of recognition and respect (like, say, Dave Matthews) gets with media, with celebrities and I guess audiences with Phish? Maybe it was feeling a lot like a trap?

After trying to breakthrough to a different audience by writing some pop tunes with Phish that didnt fly (ahem Uundermind), maybe he felt that it would be impossible for the band to continue going for his vision, when that wasnt what the band was about.

Who knows!?! Im sure a lot of things when into the desicion making process. I hope he finds what hes looking for, cause I sure am losing interest in wondering.

Edited October 27, 2005 by Guest

[Hux]

I think Trey is trying to detach himself from the Phish fanbase (for many of the reasons above - I don't pretend to know them) but you can't just wake up one day, and be detached from your fan base it takes time, hence still playing the 'roo and what not, but the crowds seem to be getting smaller.

Wants new fans->plays new music->old fans slowly leave->new fan base who appreciate new music established->go from there...

I dunno.

[bouche]

I think Trey is trying to detach himself from the Phish fanbase

I wish Bobby would try and do the same thing ...

[Del]

Wants new fans->plays new music->old fans slowly leave->new fan base who appreciate new music established->go from there...

Too bad he hasn't gotten past the "old fans slowly leave" phase...

[Hux]

I wish Bobby would try and do the same thing ...

I didn't know Weir was attached to the Phish fan base, interesting perspective bouche.