13-Year Old Girl Dead from Ecstasy

[bradm]

numerodos' labelling of ecstasy as a "hard" drug brings up an interesting point: what's the difference (in people's opinions) between "hard" and "soft" drugs?

To me, it has a lot to do with the trouble they can cause vs. the amount taken. For example, with heroin, crack cocaine, powder cocaine, methamphetamine, and (as we've seen) ecstasy, there is a significant chance of death or addiction with one dose (or a few doses); these I'd call "hard" drugs. Cannabis, tobacco, and alcohol are much more "forgiving", I think, and so would be categorized as "soft" drugs. (It's worth noting that those are my opinions only, and I freely admit that some may put ecstasy into the "soft" drug category.)

Aloha,

Brad

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I think the jury has to be on permanent hiatus for ecstasy, if only because it's such an inconsistent thing - you really have to take it on faith whether what's in it it going to be what might be claimed to be in it.

Most people I've known who discovered their pharmaceuticals at a relatively young age, through some combination of innate sense and dumb luck, managed to get through it ok, but I would never put down a blanket age for "appropriate" (and certainly never an age for "recommended" - I know people in their 70s I'd never want to see on anything stronger than coffee, and even that's pushing it). I do have real difficulties with those programs that educate kids away from drugs, in large measure because those kids with chips on their shoulders, for whatever reason, seem to delve in just to prove a point. The real education that they need, I think, can only come from people who have been there themselves, and the way things are set up, those people tend to be the ones who aren't afraid of sanctions - that is, the most common voices are the ones who have "repented" of their "ill-spent days". It strikes me as the same problem with education around cults - anti-cult views prevail because social tolerance of members of active New Religious Movements (as sociologists prefer to call them) is, for a variety of reasons, most of which remain unexplored, low.

A bind of a situation, in other words. It's probably a truism that most people fear the unknown, and prefer to keep it that way. Meanwhile, normal remains fucked up (or better, as Cockburn says, the trouble with normal is it only gets worse), and the problems continue to spiral.

[timouse]

got to add my two cents here... ladies and gentlemen, there is a reason why ecstacy is illegal, its fucking dangerous! 13 year old children do not understand the concept of responsibility--grade 8 we are talking here--- they are still playing at recess...

how can you blame society and teaching "children" that drugs are bad-- come on, a thirteen year old just died, that in my estimation is a fucking tragedy.

There is a reason for educating children to stay away from "hard" drugs.

e is dangerous, and kills people. that's never good. i want kids to be taught that drugs are bad, and what it is that they in fact do, so that when the 13 year old starts to sketch out, she knows well enough to not take another pill and maybe even to get help if it's getting bad enough.u nderneath the legal wrangling, drugs are a public health issue...they are out there, kids will end up trying them...

i totally appreciate what you're saying, numerodos, what i said was not at all meant to ruffle feathers. it's ultimately a very touchy issue, and a kid brough down at thirteen is indeed a total tragedy.

[The Chameleon]

Well I may be ruffling feathers but, I don't believe any drugs are bad.

Allow me to explain: A drug is a substance, it is inanimate, it has no sentient or concious and makes no deliberate choice. It is void of judgement and has specific intention. To call something bad really means; it's bad for me or a group of people like me. The drug itself is niether bad or good, it just is.

How people react to the drug, use or abuse it, alter it etc.., is the issue not the drugs. It never has been.

I mean if soemone could smoke crack once every year on a certain day and not hit it again, is it a problem? Probably not, but 99% of the population can't do that, so our lack of judgemnt and self control are bad or unfortunant not the drug. As such things are legislated to "protect" you form yourself, as you are not to be trusted with yourself. This is the theory positivist law; "It's right or wrong because it is decreed".

Also to put this incident in perspective: Ectasy was sinthesized in 1911. And in those years If there were more than 100 death worldwide total, directly related to MDMA, I be shocked. the reality, is that this is drop in the bucket.

More people die from crossing the road and eating poorly in that same time, I'm sure. Howevver this view is unpoipular as the emotional response people feel is palpable and needs to exercised.

I am not trying to belittle this death, it's a tragedy, but it is not an epidemic. It is a freak case that may or may not have been related directly to what was in that pill.

I think we loose sight of the scope of what we're talking about here by getting wraped up in the illegality and the "it's evil" label.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

A drug is a substance, it is inanimate, it has no sentient or concious and makes no deliberate choice....

I don't think you'll find any disagreement there, but the problem is about having enough information and autonomy to make intelligent decisions about it, within the context of a culture where as a kid you can get your hands on pretty much anything if you try hard enough. As timouse says, it's good to know what you're dealing with if you get yourself into a situation where you start totally sketching out, so that you don't make things worse.

What you say sounds a bit like the "guns don't kill people, people kill people" line. It's hard enough for anyone, let alone a budding young adult, to have a secure sense of moral accountability and responsibility, particularly around something that they're virtually clueless about, and even more so around something that has such an aura of sexiness and rebellion to it.

[Buffy420]

It doesn't suprise me! E is everywhere.

I read in the paper last summer that some grade 7 kids got caught selling crack at school near where I live. Now that is pathetic.

Some drugs are just bad! A kid at my school ate mushrooms, went home and crawled into a little ball on his bed and died. I still don't know if the mushrooms were poisonus or if he was allergic to them or what!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I've never heard of anyone just up and dying from mushrooms; maybe there was an allergy involved (or they just weren't real shrooms).

It ain't kids' play, at any rate. It would be nice if we had a culture that treated this things with cautious respect, and not just contempt, as if it were just some other kind of entertainment.

[The Chameleon]

All mushrooms are poisonous. It's the poison and your body elimintaing it that gets you high. That kid in school poison himself by eating too much.

And I think Dr. Evil Mouse is right it's the fact that the awarness and education (not propaganda) is not present in many teenagers and young adults, that is the problem.

I also agree any substance that alters you nevous system should be treated with the utmost respect and regard and you need to do your homework before you decide to take it. It should not be treated like entertainment.

Like skydiving, it could be potentially dangerous if you don't do your homework and treat the activity without caution and respect for the possible ramminfication of bad decisions.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

All mushrooms are poisonous.

Quite right, of course. It's the toxicity that induces the effect.

Is it true what I've heard, though, that citrus will cut the toxicity to some extent, and thus the effect, if things get out of hand?

[The Chameleon]

All mushrooms are poisonous.

Quite right' date=' of course. It's the toxicity that induces the effect.

Is it true what I've heard, though, that citrus will cut the toxicity to some extent, and thus the effect, if things get out of hand?

[/quote']

You are right on the citrus thing too. I've seen that works, interstingly egnough it also has acalming effect when on LSD. Personally experienced it. Interesting.

Edited February 14, 2006 by Guest

[ollie]

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ya'll should lay off the drugs.

[Esau]

All mushrooms are poisonous.

False. Very common myth.

According to The Good Drugs Guide

» Are magic mushrooms poisonous?

No. Psilocybin mushrooms are not toxic. The National Institute For Occupational Safety And Heath (NIOSH) in the US Psilocybin (641) is rated less toxic than Aspirin (199) and Nicotine (21).

However, the main danger is in mistakenly picking poisonous, non-magic mushrooms. Do not gather mushrooms unless you know what you are doing. You can find a guide here.

As for the vitiamin C/citrus/niacin topic, supposedly with an empty stomach & OJ you will heighten your mushroom expirence & with LSD some claim that niacin can help end or calm a trip, but this may be due to a placebo effect (niacin produces a flushing effect).

When I find the erowind article, I'll post the link. :cool:

[Velvet]

Sorry, but I feel like I gotta make a fairly unrelated point here.

what's the difference (in people's opinions) between "hard" and "soft" drugs?

...with heroin, crack cocaine, powder cocaine, methamphetamine, and (as we've seen) ecstasy, there is a significant chance of death or addiction with one dose (or a few doses); these I'd call "hard" drugs. Cannabis, tobacco, and alcohol are much more "forgiving", I think, and so would be categorized as "soft" drugs.

Aloha,

Brad

Tobacco is quite often addictive from the first dose and is the largest killer in Western society. I don't think a drug can get much harder than that.

[Del]

[Tooly]

all mushrooms are poisonous? then why do they sell so many different kinds in the grocery? in fact some mushrooms, like reiishi, shitake, maitake, enoki, almond portobella, cinnamon cap, golden oyster, pink oyster, blue oyster, phoenix oyster, the list is HUGE of medicinal mushrooms.

psilocybin and spilocin(actives) arent poison, well i guess in a way they are, i mean they sure do fuck you up, but they aint poison, or it would be illegal to sell spores and cultures.

as for the citrus, its the exact opposite, esau is 100% right about that, i could link to it, but im at work, and i dont like to visit drug sites from work. but, if you eat some shrooms, wash em down with citrus juice, be it OJ, or straight up, grind some boomers into a shotglass filled with lemon juice, and down it, you will trip hard as fuck, there is an equasion(sp) on this other site, ill try to link it tonight, its sometihng like it doubles the psilocin and psilocybin effects felt by you and your body.

maybe the kid who died is used to eating P. cubensis-which we all are- and this time he ate P. Cyanescens-which are about double the strength of cubes. something like if you regularly eat 1/8 of shrooms, youll only need 1 or 2 grams of cyans to trip balls. alot like liberty caps in the higher potency regard. they grow wild here in canada as well, ive seen em, i dont trust my own judgement to pick em though.

maybe he was allergic.

lest we forget that a 13 yr old girl died from X. i think its bloody terrible that kids that young can find x to be honest with ya, sure drugs are bad, if mis-used, but that does sound alot like guns dont kill ppl, I DO!

anyways, sorry for rambling. but i know my mushrooms.