Affluence as Influence?

[AdamH]

Spurred by the Brokedown Social Scene thread, I have a question to raise and I'd like to know what others think about it.

I've always admired the Slip's high quality gear, and in reading about them originally meeting at Tabor Academy (A private school in...RI I think?) I began to wonder if, when asked, they would count their seemingly upper middle-class background as a factor for their success. Now, I have NO FACTS to say that they're rich yuppie kids, and I OF ALL PEOPLE will be the first to credit their musical prowess as the first reason, but having had access to money when it was needed (instruments, touring, etc) must have set them apart from bands playing to the same kinds of audiences who didn't have that kind of money.

I'm not trying to discount the bands in this scene that are just getting by, I just think one could argue that they all came from middle to upper-middle class families, since in any other set of circumstances they wouldn't have had the freedom to tour, play music and promote themselves.

On the flipside we have the audience. Do you believe that this community is open to all people? Do you believe that it is free from discrimination? Do you think that we exclude people from the community? Do we exclude them economically from being a part of it? There's points for and against it but it'd be more fun to let others chime in.

[TonyRage]

That's a fair point but not entirely accurate. Many kids who go to private school have parents who spend all there money and go into debt to get them there. Also, many parents who have money send there kids to private school but make them work to get the gear/toys they want.

Myself, I come from an upper-middle class background and never spent my money on gear. When I realized I wanted it, I was in school and couldn't spend my parents money on it, so I worked and got the money to buy my new bass and amp, and only once have asked my folks for a pedal for my birthday. You cannot assume anything, but obviously if your folks have no money and you want good gear, you only have one choice: Rob Steve's Music.

The scene itself is obviously full of haves and not have-nots. Who can afford to tour all summer in a Jepp Liberty without selling anything? Rich kids from Mass. and Conn. But for all those kids, there are the tour rats and working class stiffs who go on tour and sell shirts, food and drugs to get by and make it happen.

My real question is about the ehtnic make-up of the Heads. I have been to many shows and 'It' was the first time I saw more than three black people. There were actually about twenty this time in a crowd of 50,000 or so. What's the deal with that?

No one seems racist or chants racist slogans but the scene still only appeals to whites and Jews mainly. Do we just have better taste in music (obviously I am joking -- I can prove it becuse I have listened to nothing but J-Five the past two days).

[kung]

I've wondered about that myself mainly because they attended Berklee and it must cost a pretty penny. They certainly are possessed of a certain decorum and liberal arts education which is associated with affluence. I've never found them the least bit elitist or whatnot although I know that's not what you're saying. Shit though didn't Page's pops invent aspirin for christ sake, same with the one Monkee who actually made something credible of his life. Phish is the quintessential rich kids band both in band and audience. That seems evident from all the 'whitecaps' from schools like Choat. Having been to parties in Conneticut after New Years '95 it was an eye opener for sure. My folks live a stone's throw from Rosedale and we always knew far more affluent people but never went without and never noticed growing up. But down there, first of all we had a chauffeur pick us up outside the venue who was surprisingly easy to find then we're rolling through Jersey. Went to a party at the chairman of Coca Cola's house and his son had a whole like Beach House thingy which was all his. Crazy sandwich trays and platters, kegs of Sammy Adams, so I was the typical crazy canuck going 'is the beer free... Right On!'. But it's like a whole other echilon of wealth you can't even imagine, shit even the property taxes which means you have access to the private beaches that the Bridge and Tunnel crowd are rousted out of, you could buy a good house up here for one years property tax. Absolutely fucked up, and you could see why Nova Scotia's been bought up as getaways- you can't get a chip stand in Martha's Vineyard for less than a cool mil.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

Well I think we all know that the Rats -if not despise- resent the Trustafarians for not having to work/sell shit to tour, but by and large I'd say 'the scene' is made up of middle class stiffs.

As for ethnicity, I was thinking about this the other day, and I really can't say what it is that makes the crowd so dang white. Hippies tend to be white, historically speaking, so does it stand to reason that this pattern has continued into the age of neo-hippy?

Tough question, that.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I do agree that originally the Phish crowd was made up of upper middle class folk, they may well resent the demise of the lots, the influx of rats and wookies- "this was our scene to start with, you have ruined it"

As far as band members themselves, one of the only real advantage of having the top-flight gear is that you don't have to slog away at a crumby job to pay for the equipment- possibly freeing time for practicing, writing, promoting etc;

But aren't the Blues founded in that mentality arising from being 'down-and-out'? I always laugh at the likes of Kenny Wayne Sheppard- the only blues he's ever known is when he gets grounded and can't play nintendo for a weekend... that's a stretch but perhaps there is some relevance there

[Booche]

"the only blues he's ever known is when he gets grounded and can't play nintendo for a weekend"

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[kung]

On the ethnic score here's a funny story. I like you all noticed ages ago you couldn't find a black person even if you tried in say '94/'95. My buddy from Conneticut Ben Harris, who incidentally used to take the commuter train to shows any weekend they wanted to back in '92 it was just the thing to do (Toronto '92 was an eye opener for them cause of just how small it was), his dad used to own 1-800-SOLDOUT and commuted to New York every morning. He hooked me up for Halloween '95 the morning of the show from the lobby of the Holiday Inn across the street and I mean everyone had there finger in the air. We crashed for a few hours and he said when I woke up the ticket would be at the desk which seemed unbelievable to me. He actually hooked me up with some local bigtime scalpers which is what a broker does but normally for tics to the US Open, Olympics, The Boss that kind of shit. I just had to go two hotels over and met with these guys with a whole stack of tickets- thought they bunked me later when I saw it was obstructed view- turned out to be practically backstage and the best seat in the house right behind the Giant Country Horns. Anyways Mr. Harris was understandably slick as shit, one new years in New York he just told us to go to this deli across the street from MSG and talk to Lenny the guy in the black velvet hat and he's hook us up which he did- no shit! He'd rousted a few counterfeiting operations when he noticed people buying up suspicious blocks of tickets like one for each show for big college bowl or Springsteen shows. He basically confirmed, while being explicitly unracist if such a thing is possible, that just don't buy tickets from black guys. The further you are from the venue, ie. MSG, the more likely it is counterfeit, if it's from a brother it is counterfeit. He said the same of on tour at shows like the Ball and Went- just don't by drugs or tickets from black guys because it's fake. And IT ALWAYS WAS. At the ball we had a 1/2 p. with us and almost got shamed into trading with a brother that was working a full on street hustle- even getting inflamed at the suggestion that we were obviously being hustled- to the point that we traded or bought hits (the 'I've never seen hits that look like this before' hits), fake mushrooms which were like hydrangeas or something dyed blue (also obviously bunk) and get this what was supposedly moroccan hash but was in fact vegetable bouillon. I think that was at the Went from a different, or we thought it was the same brother (and probably was), guy. Again it was all 'I've never seen hash that looks like this before' and fork over the coin. The desperation played into it but not really because we were well appointed- it was more orchestrated race/class guilt. Good hustle though. Ben took one look at this Moroccan when he got back said 'Vegetable Bouillon' crumbled it in his fingers and pointed out the salt crystals.

[AdamH]

Tonyrage - I appreciate what you're saying about kids having to work for things, there are some of those such as yourself whose parents taught the value of working for what you want but that is truly the exception. The numbers aren't split down the middle as you suggested..perhaps the touring crowd but not the concert crowd. Remember that it costs $40 to see Phish, if not more, and that easily excludes a significant amount of people. This is also why we see fewer visible minorities at these shows, because White people are, by and large, wealthy. I don't have the statistics in front of me but the majority of the "economically disadvantaged" people are likely from ethnic backgrounds. Can't use food stamps to get in to Molson Amp.

Kung - I agree with you about The Slip's humbility and I certainly wouldn't challenge them on that point. I wonder if they have the unspoken acknowledgement though that their family, and status have something to do with their success and ability to self-promote.

[Schwa.]

I think Mr. McConnel is actually this guy:

[TonyRage]

Ahess -- I never sai anything about split down the middle. I'm not a sociologist and certainly don't do surveys at tour. It also depends on if it's summer tour or an arena tour, right. Fall brings out the big spenders whocan aford to go to one or two shows and blow some cash. That time of year the wookies are down south or hibernating or something.

with regard to not buying off of NYC's hustlers, no shit...NYE 1998 was not a happy time for me and my girl and our friend and only got worse when I saw the guy who had ripped me off and confronted him on the only corner in all of New york without two cops on it (right across from MSG no less). Needless to say the guy was "the wrong guy" and I had to "shut the hell up before I got my ass whooped". You live and learn.

[kung]

I'm trying to remember all the different points. First thanks for the link to Doc McConnell, I think as I wrote it I realized it was acetaminophine (Tylenol) but ironically I'm almost dead certain the Monkees dad invented acetycilic acid (Aspirin)- went on to found a studio and was the only one who didn't need the reunion tour(sssssssss).

With regard to The Slip I guess I found they had been gifted with a musical education and that they were supremely respectful of that gift. Me I use my liberal arts education to wax philosophic about jambands and bait hippies on the internet go figure. I've never talked to them about it directly but felt like it was a given.

With regard to black folk/white folk gross disposable income etc. Not much you can say there, certainly affluence exists in many African American communities (see Philadelphia/NY suburbs, Boston, Washington, Atlanta). There may be cultural differences none of us would want to recognize. I've always figured touring was something no self respecting black man would be caught dead doing like skydiving or rock climbing. 'So you want me to fork over a few hundred to hang out in a parking lot with a bunch of skidbags who don't bathe, without the opportunity to personally bathe, shitty portopotties etc. So you want me to jump out of a plane or strap myself to a rock face for recreation- like that's my idea of a good fucking time'.

Having lived in rural Nova Scotia and Alberta I will tell you that this phenomena is by no means limited to cultural diversity. The idea of going to concerts in Canada or outside is totally foreign to most people in rural areas. I remember going to Another Roadside Attraction in High Plains the year that Los Lobos and Blues Traveller were playing with a huge crew and none of them had ever seen a show period. One girl had seen Honeymoon Suite. It's not so much a small world as upper middle class kids tend to stick together.

[Schwa.]

quote:

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Well I think we all know that the Rats -if not despise- resent the Trustafarians for not having to work/sell shit to tour, but by and large I'd say 'the scene' is made up of middle class stiffs

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I agree fully, but remember, who would buy all the merch that the "Rats" make their livelyhood off of if it weren't for the trusty's who bring 100$ worth of spending cash to every show. It is all about supply and demand and i don't believe that there would be any tour rats if there weren't rich kids (well off) to support them. Its all about balance.

And as a side note, how can anyone say that a person that is comfortable financially likes the music any less than someone who scrounges from show to show. The fact that Phish (for example) crosses the boundary between rich and not so rich is just another reason why they are where they are today. DMB is the perfect example of societal segregation. I think that they purposely prey on the middle class white kids whose parents will cough up 60$US for tickets. Did i just contradict myself?

[bouche]

Thanks for the tangent Kung....

[bald guy in a blanket]

Race and Ethnic background is a sticky question. I was once at Rich (I guess Ralph Wilson now)Stadium and saw DMB with 80,000 friends. Before the show we played spot the non-white guy ( a fun game if you want to increase your contempt for our society). The only black folk I found were onstage as the show started, and we had binoculars (I also noticed this phenomenon at Deer Creek for Phish this year). Now, I know there are black people in Buffalo, it seems like every time I'm there and need to be served in some way there's an upstanding black man or woman there to help me out.

Could it be that after they get done serving our white asses for minimum wage, while there white counterparts of the same age are studying for liberal arts finals or wheelin and dealin over a three martini lunch, in every major American centre, could it be that they don't want to hang out with us? I wonder why that is?

Sure, it is better in Canada , but how much.

Have you ever heard the phrase "Bramaledesh"?

White people suck. Fortunately we own everything, so it's okay.