\/\/illy Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 Paisley: The Liberals have a $900 million money grab listed in their platform which all analysts agree equates to selling a public resource to the private sector. This is called privatization. The PC have a $1.8 billion money grad listed in their platform. These two facts are what led the NDP to accusing the PC of planning to sell off Hydro One, and the Liberals of selling off half of Hydro One. Is that what you see appealing about the 'middle ground': Only sell off half of our critical public services? Have you ever shared custody of something? Did you feel that the shared custody was more effective than one or the other of you making decisions about it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by paisley: Conservatives - suck corporate cock and continue privatizing public services... (ie - feed the rich, screw the average to unemployed or unhealthy folk) Liberals - stop eating corporate wads and stop/reverse privitization with a focus on the environment, education, health care and higher paying jobs (ie - look out for everyone and make the corporations pay their fair share... they say we can't cut taxes to afford to improve the province) NDP - tax cuts for all, improved social services, education, health care, etc. (ie - much like the liberal stance except more focused on the tax cut angle... could be selling the farm, I'd have to see the province's books) personally I like the middle road (Liberal) thats my, Hamilton inspired, quick run down of how I see it (lookin forward to an argument at Polo's soon buddy) I think you've misconstrued the platforms a fair bit here. The NDPs are not offering a tax cut, and as far as selling the farm goes, they are the only party of the big three that have come up with a balanced budget plan approved by economists. The Fraser Institute released a 3.5 million -4 million deficit for the other two parties. The Liberals will privatise, and their committment to education and health has been flakey in my opinion. For instance, they're going to freeze post-secondary tuition for 2 years to examine the issue. What good does that do a student that can't afford to enter into a deregulated professional program with 16k/year tuition? How does that get more lower income / small town students to enrol in MD programs so that our rural communities have doctors? It doesn't. The Liberals have focused on change and using NDP buzzwords in an attempt to usurp the vote of the left. They say things like "renewable energy" and "health" and public etc., hoping that it will make lefties feel better about voting for them when they're really voting against the PCs. The Liberals have this race wrapped up, the PCs don't have a shot, and the NDPs don't either. BUT it is very crucial that there is a strong NDP presence at Queen's park to keep the Liberals honest (just ask Peterson) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I agree with what Michelle said regarding the Green Party - that they seem to be the most up-front about what they're planning to do. All of these candidates are dogged by serious image problems which is part of the reason it's so hard to pick. Image-wise, we still see the greens as a one-party platform, the NDP as too left for the average person, and PCs as cocksuckers. How much of this is based in fact and how much of it is us looking at the leaders and deciding that they personify their party? For instance, Ernie Eves looks like a child molester to me, and that precludes my even considering a PC vote at all because I beleive he can't be trusted. Howard Hampton is intelligent and well-spoken, yet the NDP stigma seems to prevent me from even considering THEIR platform either. Add to this all the voting techniques we're talking about: Strategic, popular choice, declining...it all gets really confusing! One thing you might want to do is get a piece of paper and write down the three things you want the ontario government to do for you, then read the different platforms and see what they're offering along those lines. On my list I have: 1. Legalize pot 2. 4 day workweeks 3. 9 weeks paid vacation Therefore, I'm off to vote communist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ahess6488: Ernie Eves looks like a child molesterHampton looks like David Gilmour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarahbelle Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 I had this conversation with my sister last night... I said I was gunna vote Green party, she said I should vote NDP cause voting for Green is like throwing your vote away. I don't know, I don't really agree. I think if more people voted for who they ACTUALLY wanted, maybe the NDP or Green Party would have a chance. Everyone's all concerned about strategy.. I don't really care about that... I'm voting for Green Party because the Earth should matter most in our lives. I'm also very annoyed at the stupid bickering between liberal and PC. Why don't they spend their money on something worthwhile like...healthcare??? help for the homeless?? hehehe.. I try to stay away from politics but it is impossible... then I get all opinionated... cheers, Sarah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 My only issue with the Green Party is what is it about their platform that cannot/is not compatible with the NDP. I'll admit that the Greens might make the province "green" quicker then the NDP, but I'm sure that the NDP would move in the same direction. There may be concessions made by the NDP on behalf of labour and industry, but lets be absolutely honest, we have to work. There have to be jobs for people and therefore environmental policy cannot be an overnight thing... I should also admit that I haven't really examined the green party platform, I'm just going based on tradition. From my perspective the time/effort/money/ideas of the Green party should be in a united left with the NDP. I think that the environment and the province suffers as a result. I mean shit, with the Green vote and the strategic voters we'd have an NDP gov't.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon. Posted September 25, 2003 Report Share Posted September 25, 2003 Marijuana Party -all the way!!! Can't vote PC...ernie is a thug Can't vote for Dalton McGuinty....as a father this dude would be on my "never go near, even in an emergency" list. Can't vote NDP, although i will look more closely at my line of reasoning on this one, yes Hampton does look a bit like David Gilmour...and his name is Hampton..... Watching the debat did not clarify things for me. I'm a bit of a dumbski when it comes to politics. like i said....Marijuana Party all the way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfmaster C Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ahess6488: Image-wise, we still see the greens as a one-party platform wha??!??!?! who are 'we' and why are 'we' judging this party based on it's image (the name green, i'm guessing is enough for 'us' to cast them aside as too focused on environmental change?)? speak for yourself, dude! as far as i have seen, the green party has done a lot to fit their beliefs into the structure of canadian government in all aspects of policy. of course we only see a highlight clip of their platform (if we even bother to look) but because they may emphasize a few well planned environmental strategies does not mean that they are not multi-faceted. i suppose i should qualify that by saying i've only been voting for 6 years and didn't follow politics much at all until that time (listened to the news and what my 'rents had to say, but until it was legal for me to have a voice i didn't bother being active). also, i am a recent transplant from bc, so the bulk of my knowledge is in national and bc provincial politics. i was at a national candidates discussion a few years back and the green candidate (jean russo i believe) brought up a few good points and examples of alternative energy that is actually feasible and posed a question to then minister of the environment david anderson (liberal) about alt. energy research --- waht did he do? he LAUGHED at her. f-cking madness - this dude won his riding too. pretty sure most people who witnessed that must have been disgusted. i was appalled. anyhooo- enough of this judging based on initial impression, sure, your instinct should not be ignored, but give ALL SERIOUS parties a fair review. i think the individual you're voting for should be considered too - it's not just the party but the person you're voting for. that's all i gots to say. and don't forget to vote. edit: sorry - i can see i get pretty worked up about politics. i just feel like we have the potential for such great things, but politics and 'the system' hold us back. i want change. real good change, and i feel voting is a good way of expressing that. i should realise that a lot of people don't feel the same about the need for change, or the method to bring it about, or the importance of voting or being active. i'm just expressing my passion in this area i guess. don't mean to come off too strongheaded or offend anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jiboom Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 well- these are my ONLY thoughts on the election.... ~how 'bout you vote for the party who includes policing as part of its platform..... the party who says that the justice system should stop profiling people because of who they are and what they look like. ~how 'bout you vote for the party who advocates for police to return to protecting the "public" instead of targeting the "public". One of my family got severely beaten up in o-town recently, just weeks after I encouraged him to get out and do more fun stuff... and he didn't get beat cause he's an arsehole, that (while I wouldn't condone) I would understand... just a random "come with us we'll get you home" type of assault.....the put-in-the-hospital kind of beaten up and mugged... some very valuable sentimental things of his were taken... I'm not talkin' about the money or clothing or jewlery (i don't even know how to spell that word), but pictures and memories.. and a feeling of safety that cannot be replaced. SO ~how 'bout you vote for the party who says it's more important to catch those who ARE harming others rather than harrass people we "think" are committing crimes? Find that political platform and I'll support it. 100% edit: sorry: I get pretty worked up by politics too..... I think voting is important but usually not conducive to real change.The last election in my riding, I didn't vote. There were guys outside the poll screaming and hollering about nazis and threatening voters as they went inside to cast their ballot. I didn't not vote because of them (I was just gettin' home from a festival and was tired), but I know that if I had went to the poll that day and saw those people, I woulda turned around and drove away. Scare tactics and in-your-face kinds of protests suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 ...the last time strategic voting was ignored... = Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted September 26, 2003 Report Share Posted September 26, 2003 agreed that my very short opinion of the political climate in Ontario was likely misconstrued... I caught a little bit of the leadership debate and gave the "vibe" I was personally pickin up so I wouldn't put too much stock in it... in reviewing the facts and discussing things amongst people I've realized the import of a strong NDP presence in the park... very necessary to be sure (good points Momack) it would be really nice to see the green party at least get some ridings as well... I think in the next 10-20 years they'll get to the point of becoming a major contender in Canadian politics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.