bouche Posted October 19, 2001 Report Share Posted October 19, 2001 I know just the place for it too. It would be a 1 X 1 table, roughly 250 pixels wide x 400 pixels tall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 19, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2001 I hate to wade back into this thing (literally) but I feel obligated to. First of all I am willing to apologize at the insensitivity of my comments, and at pooh poohing Burt's creative enterprise out of hand. I was genuinely surprised, and therefore convinced, when a number of people whose opinions I trusted expressed dismay about the show. If I were there I would have been throwing down hard I am sure, I may or may not have been disappointed with the show. I was as I mentioned tending to the Grandfather of Rock and Roll organ up the road. Garth Hudson and The Band headlined Woodstock just to be absolutely fucking clear, it was not out of sour grapes that I expressed dismay with what I'd heard of Burt's show (they aren't even on the same playing field). In fact both shows were put on by the Halifax Pop Explosion, so if one show (Burt) did well over (Garth) it is really the same ball of wax. I should also say that through my involvement with the Pop Explosion I definitely boosted for Burt's inclusion in the festival. What I would like to take issue with is Darren (presumably 'Hundermug' Marcus) bringing the underattendance of the Garth show (a point I came right out with on Northern Heads) into this at all. Moreover if the posts by 'D' are in fact Hundermug we should take into serious consideration that this is someone whose livelihood depends on the success of this band. This is someone who is payed every week by the band and his defense is to my mind worth about as much as a planted newspaper review about a lame straight to video release.There are multiple issues here one being central is the seeming impossibility of saying anything outside of glowing praise for any band really, That goes for SCI, Phil and Friends, Trey, Burt whoever. The second is that my legitimate impression of the Burt Neilson members as people lately is that they are either arrogant fucking pricks (this definitely includes 'D'), which I would prefer not to believe, or they are 'going through something'. Many people commented to me that Burt Neilson seemed to be holding themself either apart and distant or over everyone at the Evolve Fest. This is a subtle point and one I didn't care to go into. I'm sure it will come back on me as I am called the arrogant high minded cantankerous prick or whatever. But for the record what is essentially a second (or third) tier jamband, drawing modest guarantees in the Canadian market, needs more than anything is good press. Again for the record every time I mention Burt Neilson for Jambase.com (with 100,000 monthly visitors I should add) it is nothing but glowing praise, I save all this stupid shit for the message board and put out a unified front to the yanks. Apparently Burt can do without the support in the American market as they have been playing so many big dates down there. While almost every other 'improv' band in the Canadian market has been supportive of our efforts with Northern Heads, Burt couldn't care less. No press materials, no updates on what they're up to, no breaking news. So we have had to investigate the matter for ourselves and it seems as if they just have a poor organization and lack direction all of which can be blamed in one way or another on their road/business manager(past and present). Sorry Charlie but the truth hurts and that was just plain punk ass bringing Garth Hudson, a man with more talent in his one pinky finger than that entire god damn band into all of this trite bullshit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpua Posted October 19, 2001 Report Share Posted October 19, 2001 This is Friday afternoon fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Luke - 3 things:1) Northern Heads is a good site. It has brought a smile to my face a number of times and also upset me a couple of times, whatever. 2) Your "review" of the Evolve festival on Jambase was rambling, self-indulgent and virtually unreadable. I wouldn't be bragging about that. I like some of your stuff but if you're going to publish it, it's open to criticism, and that is mine.3) Who cares that Garth Hudson was at Woodstock with the Band? Last I checked, that was 150000+ revolting people crammed into a muddy field to listen to the distant sound of mescaline-addled rock stars. What he did 30+ years ago doesn't strenghten your arguments at all.You are right about one thing though: you can still love improvised, "jam" music without being completely impressed with some of the bands on the theatre and amphitheatre circuit right now. It doesn't mean one is unsupportive of the scene to say that, it just means you have to stay true to your ears. Just my $.03. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badams Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 I feel a lot of love in this room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpua Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Brad, we've been waiting for your review of the Halifax show. As you know from the precedent set in this message thread, you no longer have to actually be at a show to give your opinion. Just speculate........Also, are we going to see you at the Halloween show, I know you like to drink (its at a bar) and you get to find out what all the controversy is over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badams Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 And given the fact that I`ve never been to any show my opinion may be the most significant of all. HAHA!!! Hey!! How did you know I like to drink? Becareful what you say, I might get a reputation. Speaking of drinking, Andre, I`ll take 24 beautiful Budweiser my friend. We`ll split them Saturday night. Keep up the interesting debates everyone, it really keeps me occupied at work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpua Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Ok Brad, you have a good weekend then. So I'll go to the show and you don't and we'll argue about it the next day. Actually we can do that for the String Cheese shows next week, and Oysterhead too. Jokes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 20, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 "The Canadian bands we've mentioned here are worth a little looking into though as you may be hearing from them soon. The Burt Neilson Band, originally formed in Thunder Bay Ontario cum Montreal Quebec cum Canmore Alberta, are without a doubt the premier Canadian jamband. That honour should probably also be reserved for the Nude Eel except that they've got a publicist to do that now. In all sincerity though, the honour rightly belongs to the Burt boys for touring Canada intensively and extensively for years and continuing to grow as artists. In particular as of late, the boys seem to have really gelled as an ensemble and are improvising passages that I would put on a par with anyone in the American market today. Also their songwriting (lacking on their Orange Shag Carpet release) has clearly been infused with a dedication to produce well-crafted songs on a par with anything happening in the non-jam world. Every time out audiences are surprised at the growth they are seeing with this band, which might have to do with the fact that you could drive from Nova Scotia to France sooner than British Columbia. So the long and short of it is that I don't think anyone knows what to anticipate from Burt Neilson (not the name of a member of the band by the way) except that they will cook. Hope likely abounds that they will at least kick out a few classy covers since they are known for not wanting to be Phishy as it were."Jambase Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ersh Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hmmmph. Interesting... I love coming here and reading this stuff. No explanations this time... everything's been said already. See ya next year.The Hisher King Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Really setting yourself up to not be taken seriously, kung. Every point you try to make you contradict by your own comments. First of all, Darren being involved with the band should by no means make his opinion invalid. As someone who has chosen this profession because he believes in the band as people and as musicians, who spends 24-7 with these guys for weeks at a time, I for one feel he has every right to voice his opinion. If it happens to be pro-burt neilson, all the better. He is one of their managers after all and his salary is hardly a bribe for good press - it's earned. For the sake of the arguement though, if your point were true, wouldn't that then, by your own admission, make your opinion of the Garth Hudson show invalid? I believe you mentioned that you were involved in the Halifax pop explosion. According to your statements, wouldn't this then make your review of the show "worth about as much as a planted newspaper review about a lame straight to video release"?You then go on to say "there are multiple issues here one being central is the seeming impossibility of saying anything outside of glowing praise for any band really" - yet you go postal on Darren for commenting on the under attendance of a show you supported... I believe the term "punk ass" was used. So, to just to make sure I am following your logic correctly here... Darren is not entitled to get defensive of criticism of a band he supports - not entitled to voice his opinion? But we should all keep silent as you scream yours? It seems to me you are a maze of contradictions. You would be better off to champion one cause and stick to it rather than playing the devil and the martyr within the same breath. Tossing in praising comments after vicious ones doesn't erradicate damage done. "Just to be absolutely fucking clear, it was not out of sour grapes that I expressed dismay with what I'd heard of Burt's show". Yet you go on to express extremely sour grapes about their efforts towards your scrolling mess of an outdated website. "while almost every other 'improv' band in the Canadian market has been supportive of our efforts with Northern Heads, Burt couldn't care less. No press materials, no updates on what they're up to, no breaking news. " It's your website. Maybe you should maintain it rather than relying on the efforts of others. If you are however looking for them to provide you with their press materials, updates, news - they already have. It's called their website. Check it out sometime. You'll find it all the info you're looking for there. Lastly, your comment "it seems as if they just have a poor organization and lack direction all of which can be blamed in one way or another on their road/business manager(past and present)" has no merit in my books. You mention lack of direction yet how many people do you know that have held down the same job for 5 years? To me that says direction. It also says dedication. The fact that 6 guys have managed to live off the proceeds of being a full time touring band in Canada for that amount of time also indicates the opposite of poor organization to me. Purchasing equipment and vehicles, organizing accomodation night after night, managing spending money and food to eat while having good times all around, making the nights of people in city after city; this shows me they must be doing something right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Ya...uh...what she said. I hope everyone is enjoying this thread as much as me! Oh ya it's spelled DarrYn (not DarrEn) Anyone want to argue that point with me? hahahaha. P.S. I am the "King" of Planning and Organization. So much so in fact that the Police once wrote a song about me- but it ended up infringing on one they had written years before. (which coincidentally was written about someone else we all know!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harpua Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 I think it should be spelled D-A-R-R-E-N. Just got back from Luther Wright and the Wrongs. They put on a great show. THey play Pink Floyd covers in a jammy bluegrassy way. You find yourself in the middle of a bluegrass jam, then you realize that its a Pink Floyd song. Good times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PassedOutGuy Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 Hey... No changing the topic! This is an argument Dammit! None of this huggy kissy make up shit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kung Posted October 20, 2001 Author Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 di·a·lec·tic (d-lktk) n. The art or practice of arriving at the truth by the exchange of logical arguments. The process especially associated with Hegel of arriving at the truth by stating a thesis, developing a contradictory antithesis, and combining and resolving them into a coherent synthesis. Hegel's critical method for the investigation of this process. The Marxian process of change through the conflict of opposing forces, whereby a given contradiction is characterized by a primary and a secondary aspect, the secondary succumbing to the primary, which is then transformed into an aspect of a new contradiction. Often used in the plural with a singular or plural verb. The Marxian critique of this process. dialectics (used with a sing. verb) A method of argument or exposition that systematically weighs contradictory facts or ideas with a view to the resolution of their real or apparent contradictions. The contradiction between two conflicting forces viewed as the determining factor in their continuing interaction. [Middle English dialetik, from Old French dialetique, from Latin dialectica, logic, from Greek dialektik (tekhn), (art) of debate, feminine of dialektikos, from dialektos, speech, conversation. See dialect.]I take many of the comments here to heart. I also agree that if one equates organization with basic subsistence and vision with getting by then Burt's got it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablo Sanchez Posted October 20, 2001 Report Share Posted October 20, 2001 I find it hard to get a grasp on this argument. Probably because I've only seen BNB four times over the last three years. I was never too impressed with what I'd seen, until the last time I saw them in Ottawa. That was the best I had seen them. So it seems at least from my point of view, that they are on top of their game, musically anyways.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 Anyone check out the front page of www.northernheads.com lately?I cant help but think of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry told some female comedian that she should think about a new career. In turn, she ends up using her war with Jerry as material.Is there an ego issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 Okay, this is no longer amusing to me. I'm not angry, it's actually just boring, so I'm going to put an end to it, at least from me. It's moved to where the psychotic ravings of the Northern Heads website are making direct attacks at me. I'm not a negative person, it takes alot to get me riled up. I'm not the BNB's biggest groupie- hey, we were in college, we were just curious. Hehehehe. Sorry, lost my train of thought. Anyway, here are some interesting contradictions I've noted. -for someone so adament about free speech, you certainly take huge offense when someone else speaks their mind. -You would be surprised if any U.S. jamband would take the time to respond to this, but you go all ape-shit over the lack of audience interaction? this is the band communicating directly with you!! you're the man of the hour! huzzah! -You negate others based on the way they dress, in that they're out of place at a BNB show, then put "Fuck You Hippies" or some other garbage on your website? Make up your mind Chet, shallow, stupid, or both? Obviously you have forsaken content on your site all together, which I'm sure will dissapoint many, many people.Listen, you were fishing for a fight with the post that started this thread. Re-read it and tell me I'm wrong- oh, wait, I'm speaking with the champ here. Alot of your accusations and observed short-comings of the band and their management are unfounded and ingnorant. You have no idea what our direction and goals are, you have no idea about the business dealings of the band, and you obviously have very little insight into the music industry as a whole. This has gone far enough as far as I'm concerned. I'd like to thank those of you who have stood up for what I was saying (which is almost everyone)- you obviously see what I see, and I'm assuming this isn't the first moronic thing that our buddy has said. How bout we agree to disagree. We won't mention this again if you don't? Quite frankly, there are much more pressing issues in these troubled times right now that deserve more of our attention and emotion. Thats all I have to say, Luke: I hope you can be big enough to agree.-Darryn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 D, I would stand up for you right now but "I'M SO WASTED" and I cant...........Believe me, emotionally, psychologically, logically and spiritually, I am standing!Personally, I dont "agree to disagree" with anyone that apparently isnt able to listen, therefore I will continue to lay here (I guess sit at the moment) and groove to Keller with SCI plow through Franklin's Tower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyOntheSpot Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 Just so we're clear:Darryn= Good Guy Luke= Bad Guy Burt Neilson= Flawless Phish Sanctuary= Democratic Criticism= Not Welcome Burt Neilson= Morally Superior Northern Heads= Morally Inferior Contradiction= Impossible Consistency= Overrated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 Also, just so they're clear (from northern heads):"(edit): In the first 20 days of this month we have received substantial traffic from the following countries: United Kingdom Germany Belgium Japan Netherlands Norway Saudi Arabia Greece Spain Italy Nepal Russian Federation Australia Denmark France New Zealand Venezuala Poland Switzerland Mexico [ed.incidentally these are all places where they have never heard of and will never fucking hear of the Burt Neilson Band]"Classy! I'll bet they've heard of the Burt Neilson band now! quote:Originally posted by Booche: Anyone check out the front page of www.northernheads.com lately?I cant help but think of that Seinfeld episode where Jerry told some female comedian that she should think about a new career. In turn, she ends up using her war with Jerry as material.Is there an ego issue here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyOntheSpot Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 I think you nailed our point for us their MarcO. We work tirelessly without any recompense promoting Canadian bands throughout Canada and the World. Since Burt's band of burnout 'Manager' types are never going to do the band justice it falls on people like us to get the word out. So yeah people have heard of Burt Neilson in those countries now, only they're not going to hear about the music they're just going to interlope on some conversation about what fucking cock knocks they are as people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indica Posted October 21, 2001 Report Share Posted October 21, 2001 Conclusion: Kung needs to lay off of the stuff! What ever that may be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptainTrips2017 Posted October 22, 2001 Report Share Posted October 22, 2001 OOOOOOO You dirty rat! You piss me off! Who be dissin' the BNB? If you ain't down with the BNB step the fuck off bitch and go back to your part time job at Music World and peddle your fucking pop music to the fast food crazy mall denizens. You think they lost their edge. That little white van goes back and forth across the country like that little white dot on the fucking pong game. All those cramped, sweaty hours tend to put a little damper on the spirit and they still fucking rock the house better than big snot nosed arena bands where each member has his own tour bus to fuck groupies and play playstation afterward in. (run on sentences are ok if they are all said in the same breath) As for anyone who has a problem with the people who comprise the Burt Neilson Band, GIT YO' ASS DOWN HEAH SO I CAN KICK IT SO BAD YOU BE TASTIN SHOE POLISH AND THE DOG SHIT I STEPPED IN!!!! For real, I know much shittier musicians with much worse attitudes. Some of you are reading this right now........ -------ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyOntheSpot Posted October 22, 2001 Report Share Posted October 22, 2001 I like this Captain Trips guy. At least he's got a little spunk- you know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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