SaggyBalls

I think it has more to do with the fact that most people avoid the politics forum.

Of course I trivialized some of the darkest parts of History. I think much of what's happened has been trivialized in the past 30 years by us not really moving past that chapter in history and continuing to allow entirely terrible things to happen around the world... ...well, mostly in poor countries where our citizens don't want to think about. Collectively we are a very passive people that don't really assert our love and support of our fellow man...if we in fact have these qualities. Maybe we think them and talk about them and maybe do some nice things for charity...but really, our collective complacency and desire to 'not rock the boat' are far worse than any off colour joke I could ever make about the holocaust. I don't think it's difficult to be critical of Israel. I also don't think it's difficult to be critical of Canada, the United States, England, or any other nation state. It's not difficult for us to criticize religion or consumerism or eating meat or a lack of environmental stewardship, how can it be difficult to criticize Israel for not taking the opportunity to show the world why it's the holy land. 'sensitive to the gravity of lampshades' IBM, Ford, and Standard oil are all still in business and well supported nations that contributed heavily to the success of the Holocaust and the Nazi forces. They were also well paid for their 'work'. I'm AWARE of the gravity of the lampshades and I'm well within my boundaries to challenge anyone's sensibilities about this subject because the subject has challenged our sensibilities and boundaries (or should have) so much already. A comment like mine should have no more affect than listening to a giant beast scream its life away as its tongue curls to the sky and blood gushes out its neck. Is my casualness more offensive than the fact that it's ultimitely necessary for people to do/say something about much of anything instead of blindly debating issues to make us feel important?

Only a little. Now do you mean bicycles or people movers...like tiny cars?? Bullet trains are awesome and it would be great to have a network of high speed trains... But the general mood everywhere is that everything's so expensive and blah blah blah... y'think we'd ever really spend the money to do something worthwhile when there are alternatives cheaper in the short term?

Thank You Birdy! " It's impossible to convey the spirit of his talk by quoting only bits and pieces, so read it. Read the whole thing, especially the part cited by St. Thomas' Doug Hennes where he says Tutu compared Israel to Hitler." I see the connection, but does that villify an entire race? nope. Just a falsely created nation state's bureaucracy and every nation that supports it. Touchy subject indeed. I just hope people don't start making lampshades out of people to bring any sort of decorative retribution.

I heard the same thing on CNN yesterday. I think that the North American Union will come in to try to 'save the day'

Thanks, Boiler Rat. That's a big part of it. "Whether it be in the name of religion or not, legislation should be in place to ensure the most humane and pain-free death for animals destined for the dinner plate." In a way you're right KK, but bolting beasts in the head to kill them/numb them before slaughter leaves blood in the carcass because it stops the heart...and makes it a carcass/carrion when it's 'slaughtered' which is entirely worse. If one is going to pay respect to an animal for taking a life to eat, then it needs to be done properly, and not just to appease one side of the animal rights movement that is in itself myopic about the process of slaughter in this regard. If that's too much for a meat eater to take then said person should become a vegetarian.

I googled 'kosher symbols' and clicked 'images' I think it was from a jewish website, but i agree that it could have been from an anti semitic website, and me mentioning 'zionism' was really baiting you folks even if it was a tiny bit...which kind of makes sense if people can put those 2 things together and come out with a presumption...but where is that presumption rooted? As a general topic of concern, a vague one, much like a grapefruit, juices can flow from this fruit under pressure. Unlike the whole grapefruit with the bitter rind and pith, the juice is sweet and refreshing - a great way for one to alkalize his or her body. Just like positive forward moving discussion. Maybe grapefruit always tasted bitter to you but it's not like i'm dropping pith in your mouth. in many cases kosher and halal overlap, and even the small percentage of the population that keep kosher (strict or not, it's still kosher) and Halal would deem the certification to be profitable since there's more of a potential for a jewish boycott than a stubborn pissy non-jewish boycott. What frustrates me more about food packaging symbols is 'organic' which has little to no legal standing and might be totally meaningless in some cases. Which is about on par with some 'Kosher' products. What debate? I'm not trying to debate. This is a discussion forum, not a debate forum. If it were a debate forum it would be in private one on one emails or the forum would be in a thread style. I'd much rather discuss things than debate them. Which probably explains a lot about the way people react in here. It's pretty f'n tedious sometimes.

All this Kosher talk put a 'learn Biblical hebrew online' banner. I think that helps someone find a definition of money. We're getting pretty close to a 'starting over' period...end times, the end of the world as we currently know it... I'd love to see a mass push to putting more focus on food, nutrition, personal spirit, and positive living. We'll probably see the value of money redefined after a mass reprinting - and not because of a cheeky hippy. " The average consumer is probably pretty apathetic about the issue. Or, at least more apathetic than Jewish customers who want to have kosher food." I guess it all depends on how particular they are about their kosher food. 'More apathetic'...I'm glad you at least left some room for interpretation there Hamilton. It's like having 2 parents or having 2 loving parents... If the parents just being in your life is enough then that's fine but it doesn't make them exceptionally good for anyone in the situation. Since I'm not Jewish it's not my place to make demands over other peoples' lifestyles and product choices, but as someone with an external perspective I do see that those that keep kosher just to follow guidelines aren't too far off Sunday Christians aside from separating meat and dairy...so at worst their farts probably don't stink as bad... (but shit still stinks) It's at least being particular which to me is entirely honourable, as I feel intention brings a lot out of the world around us. I do think that the discussion is a worthwhile one to have, especially in God and Food threads as it applies to both but for different reasons. I entirely expected this to be an interesting back and forth, and I hope that more people have more to say about it, because food and forward moving experiences are important to me.

[color:purple]Speak for yourself.

Good 'ol TB sure gets fiery, eh? Who's to tell me what to bring to discussion? I'm not saying that we should abolish it or that it's entirely wrong...but I do think that it's unfortunate that as a whole society we water a lot of things down in the name of fairness and inclusive consumerism - and that goes for Jews and Gentiles alike. But to answer the question, 'Where is this so??' In the UK, in North America...so a lot of places this is so. I don't remember the article/poll, but I did read some figures that indicated such.

A higher percentage of Muslims are strictly Halal, TB. You're really grasping at straws here Buddy.

Obsessing? not obsessing. Bringing up in a politics forum on the internet... Now, considering that we're at the brink of economic meltdown and the current economic system doesn't work. The Gov't will probably have to bail out the food industry and we may be able to demand they use their profits for other things. I don't think they should let go of the certification. I think it should demand stricter guidelines and a higher quality of end product. they could make the food better. I don't know how to get them to give something of value back to the nation, but i don't get paid to figure this stuff out...so it'd take me awhile to get an answer for that.

"Or that Pringles shouldn't be kosher regardless, because it's junk food? Or that companies are tricking Jews into buying crap by telling them that it's okay because it's kosher, thus diminishing the sanctity of what they are eating?" a little bit of this and a little bit of thinking that since companies spend a lot of money for the right to use the label, then we could easily get them to fund local agriculture and support more home grown food and nutrition councils.

calm down you big gorilla. I don't doubt the guidelines are kept by many companies with a Rabbi on hand...and I know enough Kosher Keeping Jews that keep kosher because it's God's request... Kosher symbols on a tube of Pringles doesn't really do much to inspire Sanctity in one's pantry.

They can't. which makes this subject so touchy. More and more Kosher doesn't have to do with Food Certification, as more kosher slaughterhouses are using bolts to kill their cattle instead of letting them while alive, leaving blood in the beast. More and more unhealthy products have the Kosher symbols even though there's nothing holy about the food or its ingredients. Semitic Semantics.

It's great how the word Zionism breeds a lot of awful assumptions.

I wasn't being anti-semitic. But it's funny how anything not totally on side with all things jewish is automatically seen as being anti-semitic. Is it the word 'Zionism'? Any nation that supports Israel is a Zionist state. Is that a bad thing?

come on.

cycles? for real? even for people that commute 2+ hours a day? Define 'growth' then define 'money'

are you talking about me, d_jango?

"I'm waiting for the post that says that products with a halal symbol must be going to support anti-American madrassas in Pakistan." Maybe it does, but Kosher meat can still be slaughtered carrion and improperly drained, unlike Halal. Sure the animal's unconscious for the letting, compared to Halal where the heart is still beating (is fear filled meat or rotting blood worse?), but over time these Kosher symbols are becoming less and less particular and more and more meaningless. After all, they're meaningless for almost every non-kosher individual. Most people have no idea what a little tiny MK means and it's most often of no interest. I think Halal means more to more muslims than the Kosher symbols do to most Jews. Why bring it up? Because that article deals a lot with intending more for our food, our bodies, our economies, our environment, and our nourishment. Imagine if the revenues that were made from Kosher symbols were pumped into local agriculture or awarded to small farmers. That would be an amazing way to give back to the people that make the food we eat and would improve our communities.

What about economies of scale? I find it hard to believe that there's a Rabbi standing over every line blessing the food as it comes out of the factories. These symbols are on every single mass produced product. It sort of waters down the whole principle of keeping Kosher doesn't it? To sanctify one's dinner table? I think it's silly that this happens, as it's not making the products any better, just accessible. I'd be more likely to buy meat from a Halal or Kosher butcher, but Kraft Dinner? Come on. When there's a legitimate restriction for food production...like non-GMO or a reliable organic food supervising body then maybe some of these labels will really have some integrity. The Hare Krishnas make all of their food for Krsna and it sanctifies their meal. And it also tastes amazing and is healthy. Ain't nothing special about a tube of Sour Cream and Onion pringles.

How am I being Anti-Semitic?