Is Gangsta rap in violation of human rights?

[Deeps]

An anti-violence activist in Ontario wants human

rights officials to rap HMV for selling "gangsta"

tunes she claims promote hatred against women.

HMV: Harbinger of hatred?

Edited October 5, 2005 by Guest

[Steve from Cleveland]

It might promote violence/violence against women, and do all sorts of other influential things. However, I do not see HOW one could claim that it is in violation of human rights. Whatever human rights are (and there is much debate) they certainly don't prohibit people from singing songs...

Steve

[MarcO]

I hope her efforts fail miserably.

[Deeps]

Yeah it seems that we went through this before and the Explicit Lyrics Parental Advisory sticker was born.

I hope her story stays in the news for a little bit, but don't like the overall implications of her being able to stop the sale of any music.

I do however think that something needs to be done to teach the kids, who are mainly listening to this mysoginist drivle that this garbage is not cool and the people who sing this stuff are not any one to look up to.

Some sort of ad campaign to teach kids to be objective listeners.

Sorry dudes this shit worries me a bit and I in no way prescribe to the ideology that would say that these images and words have no effect on the way people end up. Not saying it's always the case, but we can see it in our everyday lives having a bullshit effect.

Mini gangsters trying to be hard and starting fights? I could do with a little less of it.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Guest

[thatpatguy]

I think it's the parents that need to teach the kids. I listened to lots of hardcore rap when I was younger and I always knew the difference between listening to a song and actually approving of the message.

A lot of these songs are either portrayals of everyday life or characters taken on by the artists. Anyone remember the whole cop killer thing with Ice T? His main arguement was that Steven King could write a story about people kidnapping people and crippeling them because they were obsessed with them (like Misery) and no one says a thing, in fact they even make a movie about it.

Ice T writes a song about a guy who is so fed up with the police that he decides to start killing them and gets into piles of crap for it.

Eminem (not that I'm a fan) has made a mint writting raps that are designed to offend and piss of parents and adults. So did Marilyn Manson.

If parents sit down and educate their children I honestly feel that kids will be able to figure this stuff out on their own. I did at any rate.

I quickly outgrew a lot of that stuff too. It was fun for a while, made you feel all hardcore and tough and stuff.. but after while it just gets tired and you move on. I doubt guys like 50 cent will any more than a foot note in the history of music (if that even).

Just my 2 cents

[Alexis]

i saw a thing on the news last night about this. i loved that they had man on the street interviews with ONLY black women and all of them said the same thing. "they ain't talkin bout allll womens, they only be talkin bout certain kinds of womens."

yeah sistah, and you ain't be one-in of dem. bitches and ho's bitches and ho's

bad rap joke of the day....why does snoop dog carry an umbrella? for the drizzle

[Steve from Cleveland]

bad rap joke of the day....why does snoop dog carry an umbrella? for the drizzle

Fo' Drizzle? Fo' Shizzle...

hmm...

S/C

[Deeps]

I think it's the parents that need to teach the kids.

What if you're Dad is impoverished and his cynicsm is taken out on your Mom everyday as Eminem kicks it in the background and what if your Mom is comfortable with being some form of Dad's bitch or ho and fears what would happen if she taught you otherwise?

How can those with no self respect instill self worth and objective listening in impressionable kids?

I think public service and education can go a long way in helping to educate those who won't necessarily get it in the home.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Guest

[Steve from Cleveland]

I think public service and education can go a long way in helping to educate those who won't necessarily get it in the home.

I think, and maybe I'm being overly cynical, that no matter what kids are taught in school/public service/etc, kids replicate the behaviour learned inside the home. So, I guess I'm saying that it really IS the parents' responsibility. That said, many parents are unfit to be parents, and unfortunately for the kids, there's no test one has to pass (unless you're adopting, which in itself seems strange) to qualify for the job of parenting.

It's unfortunate, but I think a sociological norm that kids grow up to be who they see (their parents) MOST of the time. Obviously there ARE some exceptions to this, but it happens enough to say that it's the norm.

It's really hard to break that cycle...

Steve

[thatpatguy]

fair enough that some parents suck ass and won't be able to educate their kids in a responsible manner. Of course this also opens the whole debate as to who truely decides what is considered a responsible manner. There are lots of religious freaks out there (strictly as an example) who aren't necessarily dead beats or wife beaters or whatever who teach their kids in a why that I don't think is a responsible manner, but lets not get into that right now.

It would be great if there was some way that the rest of society could kick in and raise these kids, but I think we'd be in a much worse situation than we are currently in if we really let someone control what people can and cannot listen to, watch, read, whatever even if it is just an honest attempt to make sure our society doesn't become a bunch of sick and twisted sociopaths.

Though there is not good solution, I'm completely and totally against censorship.

I guess ultimately this is just another case where humans just suck and are making life difficult for all of us, but how do we all stop being human beings?

[Steve from Cleveland]

I agree with you... And I am also against censorship... But, as the post suggests, this person is trying to get the records pulled due to some sort of Human Rights concern. I read the article, and didn't see what any of it has to do with human rights, other than she apparently filed the claim through some human Rights organization, which still puzzles me...

S/C

[d_rawk]

I'm totally uncomfortable with this. What about gangsta movies? What about disturbing content (real or fictional) of any sort in any medium?

Yuck.

Incidentally, I heart Eminem.

[MamaPink]

Has anyone ever heard Ben Folds' cover of "Bitches Ain't Shit"? I think it's funny.

[PalacePrincess]

hahaha, ben folds anything is funny, i'd like to hear that.

and YES d_rawk! eminem is awesome. to anyone automatically using him as an example of what is wrong, i suggest actually listening to his lyrics before you do so. he's written entire songs about how ridiculous it is that stars are looked up to as much as they are and how the fans should have their own minds and not do things because their "idols" make it look cool, when half (if not most) of the time the things these stars are singing about aren't even real. eminem fucking rules. not only is he a very, very smart man but he's even hilarious too.

[thatpatguy]

fair enough.. maybe I should have said Slim Shady then, as supposed to Eminem.

I was trying to show him disrespect, just trying to say that he has written songs with the specific purpose of getting people riled up, and his lyrics may or may not be ideas that he as a person actually agrees with. It's my understanding that his Slim Shady character was set up just for that, but I'll admit, I could have it all wrong.

[d_rawk]

No, I think you're right. SS is engineered to aggravate, agitate, stir shit up, cause a fuss. That is part of the charm. And is also part of the side message of "don't take this shit too seriously, folks".

Like PP said, Marshall Mathers is smart, funny ... and talented.

[PalacePrincess]

hahaha, eminem once described his slim shady persona as the equivalent of road rage.

the majority of the people getting SO riled about about the slim shady-esque pieces were the ones missing the joke in it... which only made it funnier to those who got it. not to mention a downright brilliant business move on his part. he suddenly became notorious. which = b.i.g. wallet.

anyway, i do actually agree that this is wrong, it is way too close to censorship. music is art. art is open to interpretation. hell, ween has been accused of being anti-semitic over reggaejunkiejew and gener is jewish. ridiculous. i just had to point out that eminem is not a correct example of what is wrong with music today, because in many ways, he is very much what is right with it.

[thatpatguy]

maybe I was getting my message mixed up. I wasn't trying to say he was what was wrong with music, but rather trying to say that he is an example of why we shouldn't censor. He created this offensive Slim Shady character very much the same way an author creates an offensive character in a book.

I'm sorry if I caused a misunderstanding, I think we are both saying the same thing

[PimpDaddySweetPants]

If this crazy biatch up here in Canada makes it so I can't get my new Snoop Dogg joint or heaven forbid the new Little Jon joint, Ima go crazy and lay the pimp hand down.

Free speech my nizzle!

Down in the USA they had this ho to deal wit' y'all remeber Tipper Gore. Don't let that shizit hizappen hizere ya dig!

-Pimp Out

[PalacePrincess]

i think we pretty much are, especially now that you've expanded on it. and no worries, i wasn't even directing it solely at you, deeps mentioned him too, moreso in the context of eminem being an example of what is 'wrong' than you did. i just wanted to correct that because it IS a common misconception -- heck, the first time i heard about eminem (via the media) i was disgusted. then i actually listened to his music & laughed my fricken ass off.

[Deeps]

True a better example may have been 50 Cent or some other lovely spirited fool.

My bad on the Eminem front.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I really didn't need to see that picture of Tipper. You should warn people before posting shit like that.

Must... get... antidote....

Edited October 5, 2005 by Guest
Rebalance sanity

[SaggyBalls]

fucking reality TV at it again.

[Calamity Jane]

here we are, back at a similar old debate, gone one round already on jambands.

for the record: I am also against censorship BUT..I have to qualify with a but!

is restricting the sale of cigarettes & alcohol to minors censorship becasue we know these products to be harmful and want to protect young people from harm???

after a fight, the video game industry now has a rating system like the motion picture industry, which now acknolwledges that certain images/storylines may be harmful or inappropriate to children/youth. What do we mean by harmful? Well in the shoot & kill vidoe games, we're talking about a reduction in a child's ability to learn and feel empathy for other beings when these games are played repetitvely. Researchers have linked increased aggression on playgrounds to the over-use (?) of these types of games.

I have the exact same concern about the lyrics in gangsta rap and what they do to young minds. And these concerns are not 'academic' but I SAW this in my inner-city Toronto school. I worked with the type of kids Deeps has described above. I fought daily against the images they were fed via Much Music...the girls indeed dressed like 'sluts' and had low self-esteem. the boys were tough talking swaggeing aggressive little pricks who often sat through class, rapping under their breath about who they were gonna 'off.' These kids had NO legitimate social or economic power and so looked to their gansta idols as a real solution to their problems. Incarcerating these kids when they do get caught at their petty (or worse, violent) crimes is not going to be a deterrant anymore to others -- it's a ME culture as many of you have already pointed out, and the gansta rap only feeds this!

So what are the solutions?

I certainly don't agree with burying our heads about the problem and saying they'll out-grow it, it's just a phase, it's designed to irk parents...too much random gun violence in TO is proving otherwise.

So what really grinds my gears is people slaggin someone who is actually trying to DO something about a problem, without putting any other solutions forward!

[Deeps]

So what really grinds my gears is people slaggin someone who is actually trying to DO soething about a problem, without putting any other solutions forward!

It's funny how these are the same people who are annoyed that it has become a ME generation in some instances.

Well put C-Jane. [color:purple]You ho!

Edited October 6, 2005 by Guest