To love or not to love.. that is the question

[organicmama]

Alright folks-I need some advice. I've already bugged plenty of friends about this one and have gotten no where. When the hell do you pop the 'L'word in a relationship? I know it depends on a million different things, mostly when it feels right. But what if no one has said it for almost a year? This seems a long while to me. I've never had to nerve to say it or bring it up in fear of being rejected. Is it possible the other person is feeling the same way? Because if they didn't love you, why would they then stay for that period of time?

It always seems like such a big thing when it shouldn't be at all.

Well??

[d_rawk]

[dear=abbey]

People stay in relationships for all sorts of bizarre and not so bizarre reasons, only one of which is love.

If it's important for you to say it ... say it.

If it's important for you to find out ... find out.

[/dear]

It would have been perfect if you had signed off with something vaguely clever and alliterative, like:

- hopeful but hesitant in the hammer

Also: my advice is worth nothing.

But seriously, good luck with this. Assuming you're female and that your partner is male -- sometimes boys just suck at this sort of thing. But you've been together a year, seems you feel it, so why avoid it? If you stubbed your toe, you wouldn't hesitate to say "ow, that fucking hurt", right? So why hesitate to say "I'm fucking in love"?. It is what it is.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

That word has meant just about everything it can for me for as long as I've been aware of it as a word. It might be worth opening up as a point of conversation - just what does it mean for each of you? Find your favourite common meaning, and maybe, just maybe, there you go. You might not have to bother saying it, which will spare each of you the embarrassment of it being used formulaically.

There's my Oprah moment of the day (I say that never having sat through more than ten minutes of her).

[bouche]

You can say "Lick my lovepump" pretty much after the second bottle of red is finished.

I hope that helps.

[d_rawk]

The Love Pump

[organicmama]

It is a strange and stupid thing. In the past I've had people overuse the word until I didn't want it said at all. You can say it, yet not mean it-but you can also be in love and not mention it as well.

Silly rabbit-trix are for kids!

[ge-off]

HELLO

[d_rawk]

Then this is where Dr. Evil Mouse's advice is more apt than my own by at least half - forego the word and talk about what you might actually mean by it instead.

[bradm]

The best definition of love I've come across is by Robert A. Heinlein*: it's love if your happiness is directly dependent on another's.

I'd also like to think that any love I feel might feel should be independent of whether that love is reciprocated.

Aloha,

Brad

* It's in his book, "Stranger In A Strange Land." Note, however, that the definition is not in the recent expanded reissue of the book, just in the original editions.

[d_rawk]

[edjt:] quick reading led to a not-worthwhile response. The ultimate point is a celebration of bradm's wisdom.

(anybody remember The Magnetic Fields 3-CD release called '69 Love Songs'? This thread has inspired me to dig that old gem back up and take a listen ...)

Edited October 12, 2005 by Guest

[d_rawk]

It makes you blind, it does you in

It makes you think you're pretty tough

It makes you prone to crime and sin

It makes you say things off the cuff

It's very small and made of glass

and grossly over-advertised

It turns a genius into an ass

and makes a fool think he is wise

It could make you regret your birth

or turn cartwheels in your best suit

It costs a lot more than it's worth

and yet there is no substitute

They keep it on a higher shelf

the older the more pure it grows

It has no colour in itself

but it can make you see rainbows

You can find it on the Bowery

or you can find it at Elaine's

It makes your words more flowery

It makes the sun shine, makes it rain

You just get out what they put in

and they never put in enough

Love is like a bottle of gin

but a bottle of gin is not like love

[Large Marge]

Alright folks-I need some advice. I've already bugged plenty of friends about this one and have gotten no where. When the hell do you pop the 'L'word in a relationship? I know it depends on a million different things, mostly when it feels right. But what if no one has said it for almost a year? This seems a long while to me. I've never had to nerve to say it or bring it up in fear of being rejected. Is it possible the other person is feeling the same way? Because if they didn't love you, why would they then stay for that period of time?

It always seems like such a big thing when it shouldn't be at all.

Well??

Careful where you step. Timing can be everything on this kind of endeavor, when it really is that deeply-seeded Love, the kind that neither of you want to jinx by labelling.

Obviously you're ready to move forward; to test the waters with your next step so to speak. Nice move. While I can't presume to know anything about anything here, you may want to consider the half joke/half truth approach at first, as a means of self and relationship preservation. Add the ominous words in a light handed way, either in person or in an e-mail. "Aw, you rock Babe; have I told you how much I love you?", followed by a noogie, or a shot to the arm, or some other obvious attempt to lighten things up. This way, the reaction can dictate your apparent original sentiment.

I dunno. Just one of a million options, but whatever you do, go for it!

[Calamity Jane]

10 points, no, 100, to Large marge for using the word 'noogie' in a post!

[d_rawk]

when the rhythm calls

the government falls

here come the cops

from Tokyo to Soweto

viva la musica pop

we are black & white

and we dance all night

down at the hop

and the letters were tall

on the Berlin Wall:

"viva la musica pop"

so if you're feeling low,

stuck in some bardo,

I, even I, know the solution ...

love, music, wine and revolution!

love, love, love

music, wine and revolution

this too shall pass

so raise your glass

to change and chance

and freedom is

the only law

shall we dance...

(so if you're feeling low

stuck in some bardo

I, even I, know the solution -

love, music, wine ... and revolution!)

[Alexis]

hmmm...

some good points here....if you feel something a la the stubbed toe comment, why not just say it. what's the big deal? it's only a big deal if YOU make it a big deal. everyone else makes love out to be a big deal, but the relationship you have with your partner is yours alone...it's what you make it, not what others influence it to be.

i LOVE bradm's quote on it's love when your happiness is dependent on theirs. although...is that co-dependency? i think that's when you need someone else to be happy...not them being happy to be happy yourself.

if you feel the way you do...who cares if the other person reciprocates it or not? claim your feelings...own them. they're yours. bask in the warmth of being in love. love unabashedly.

i like whoevers comment on defining what love is to you. you can say something like "i don't want to make this a big deal the way some girls (or guys) make a big deal of it. but at the same time..it's a big deal to me, in the way that it's important to me. i love you. i love you in this way and that way (insert definition here) and just explain it all. sum it up with something like "i feel this way, and want to share it with you. i don't expect you to feel the same way, and won't be upset if you don't...really...i won't be mad." hehehe

seriously though. why worry. people worry too much over these things. either it's true love or it's not. but any other kind of love you find yourself in is still great, and wonderful, and satisfying. how many great poems, novels,songs have been written because of unreciprocated love?

i will say this. don't get into this talk because a certain amount of time has gone by. people stay in relationships for TONS of reasons...even when they love the person...just are no longer IN love. i won't get into these reasons. but only have these conversations if you're sure you're in love...not because you feel it's the appropriate thing to do since x # of months has gone by, and that's when all your friends, the media, and stories in movies tell you you should be in love.

margey...i love you...but i wouldn't neccessarily do it that way. kinda makes a joke of the love. it holds something back because of fear. if there's one thing i've learned in the last...oh..year i guess...is that i do not want my life ruled by fear. especially in matters of the heart. so i'm preachin on!

just go for it. if you say it, and good things happen, who knows how long you would have sat there not knowing? if you say it, and something bad happens, you knows how long you would have sat there keeping yourself from your one true love if you hadn't said something?

it you feel it. just say it. allow yourself to be yourself without the screens and filters society imposes upon us. or we allow fear to impose on us. love for whatever reasons you do...they're all ok...except maybe for money...don't love for money. but whatever you do, love unabashedly.

[popo weenie]

Because if they didn't love you, why would they then stay for that period of time? [color:red]

sex with sue/

if you are seeing a guy, girl for a year and no love mentioned, you nor the other person loves , all depends what you are doing to stay in a relation ship that long

if you feel you need to say love and really mean it say it but make sure you mean it to heck with how they feel just be honest, then you will know where the relationship is at and if it is moving forward

don,t say i love you while you are drinking as we all love and oh we,d get married in a sec. with a buzz, fake love or buzzed love,

either way say what you mean

everybody is afraid of rejection but no place for that in a relation based on trust

hope i don,t boggle the ole mind as i am pretty good at that, always go with you gut feelings

ah i could go on and on but call dr. phil

he will tell you in a year after he talk,s n talk n talk or call sue but you know what she is going to start talking about first right off the bat

[organicmama]

I guess what I'm looking for is to just be on the same plane-or at least similar path as he is. It is good to have people pick your brains on this one. The older I get the more I disseminate what love means-because it is not a one sided or singley defined word.

Sometimes I just want to be obnoxious and say, "Do you like me? What do you like about me? Do you want to be with me?" Maybe I can yell, "Give me somethin' to work with here!" in a new york Bronx type accent!

Thanks folks!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Maybe I can yell, "Give me somethin' to work with here!" in a new york Bronx type accent!

I like that one .

[Kaidy Mae]

you can say something like "i don't want to make this a big deal the way some girls (or guys) make a big deal of it. but at the same time..it's a big deal to me, in the way that it's important to me. i love you. i love you in this way and that way (insert definition here) and just explain it all. sum it up with something like "i feel this way, and want to share it with you. i don't expect you to feel the same way, and won't be upset if you don't...really...i won't be mad." hehehe.

I think I know where you're going here Alexis, but I'd like to stress that we should be honest about how it will affect us. This is obviously something very important to you, Soy Toy, and there's no need to be embarrassed by that.

As for that Heinlein quote, I wholeheartedly disagree. I think making your wellbeing and happiness depend on someone else is completely unfair. Of course you can affect each other, but if you're all alone at the end of the day, that should be enough to make you happy. We need to be strong individuals in order to be strong partners.

Popo's advice about keeping the booze out of such an admission is VERY important. It is because of such situations that you end up engaged on your third date. LOL

Soy Toy, I'll leave you with another quote about love. It is my personal favourite.

"The highest function of love is that it makes the loved one a unique and irreplacable being."

-Tom Robbins

I have been in your shoes before and they certainly weren't my favourite pair. May I suggest other expressions of love before you go busting out the L word? Perhaps say something like, "I adore you". It's also good not to wear that phrase out. I know a lot of people who are bitter that those four letters can be so monumental in a relationship. Be prepared that his reaction may go either way. He may be glad you had the guts to say it first and that he's been feeling it all this time but was too shy to say so. He may also confess that he's just not feeling it. Be ready for both.

I don't envy your situation. But if I do have any real advice that I have learned that I can pass on to you, it is this: There is no decision in your life more important than who you choose to love. Do not waste your time. Life is so short and once you find someone who is truly unique and irreplacable to you, you'll be so glad that you had the heartaches and lonely days that got you there. Good luck, sister. I sincerely hope that your heart will be happy.

Oh, and d_rawk, wicked lyrics bro!

[bradm]

The Heinlein quote is not about making your wellbeing and happiness (directly) dependent on another's, it's stating that if they are, then that's love.

Aloha,

Brad

[Kaidy Mae]

Ahhh, now that makes more sense.

But what if you can't make someone happy?

[bradm]

Whether you can make another happy is a separate issue. I admit it'd be a tough situation to be in, if your happiness depended on the happiness of someone who not only wasn't happy (which happens; we all go through sad times), but who couldn't be made happy.

And note that Heinlein's definition isn't just about "romantic" love, as it also can cover the love of a parent for a child, the love between siblings, or even between friends. If the loved person can't be made happy, it can have bad effects on the loving person (consider a parent of a child suffering from chronic depression), but that doesn't necessarily invalidate (or "erase") the love.

Aloha,

Brad

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Whether you can make another happy is a separate issue.

And inescapably complex - you get into all sorts of questions of coercion, ingratiation, etc., that routinely get called "love" in, well, probably any culture.

"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

R.D. Laing.

[Kaidy Mae]

While I appreciate the clarification on the quote, the word "dependent" still makes me a little uneasy.

As well, my happiness at the office can entirely depend on whether my boss feels the need to be a wretched cunt or not. If she's unhappy, I feel her wrath and, therefore, am often unhappy. While my happiness may directly depend on hers, it would be a rather grand stretch to assume that I like her, let alone love her.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Your patience, no doubt, is an especially important kind of love, though I'm sure you'd never want to use that word with her.