why doesn't SoOn have an evolve?

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

CAMMON!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Cuz that would prevent people from driving down East where the Evolve vibe is happening (so I hear).

Central Canada needs a Devolve festival, if it's to be true to itself.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

what i mean by EVOLVE is a semi big serious fest with semi big names.

[SaggyBalls]

i'd have to say that it's because Ontario hasn't given financial backers any reason to invest.

People are going out to less live music and the scene isn't as vibrant as it seems to be out east.

true, a lot of heady kids live in Ontario and upstate, but when the border's only a drive away, the risk outweighs the benefits.

i would really like somebody to prove that it'd work though.

I'd have to say the mediocre draw for CTMF would be the best example as to why there isn't a serious fest in canada within a reasonable drive from montreal/ottawa/toronto

When I was at OM a couple of years ago there were at least twice as many kids as at CTMF and rock music's on commercial radio. not those acts, but it's still rock music (mostly)

Now even Om isn't really happening anymore.

So the industry needs push from the fans and the fans need new push from the industry.

hell, music needs the push to get a fanbase back. people aren't into music as much as they're into songs nowadays.

Songs make money. Music is just nice to listen to.

as far as classical music, it's the players that make money. new composers don't seem to make the same living as a serious orchestra player. It seems so backwards...making music for television, film, commercials...scores and soundtracks for movies and videogames...samples and loops for hip hop rarely get people paid even though a catchy hook in one song can get a producer paid enough to not worry about living for a little while at least.

So there you have it...a meandering rant yet again with a recurring theme...the serpent eating its own tail.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I'd have to say the mediocre draw for CTMF would be the best example as to why there isn't a serious fest in canada within a reasonable drive from montreal/ottawa/toronto

Not having been to an Evolve, I stick my neck out saying this, but I expect this is an apples/oranges thing, just because the CTMF as I now know it (viz., Izzy's) couldn't take the volume of people at an Evolve - and good thing too.

I think it may also be a question of addressing the needs of different audiences, too, and from what I gather, Evolves are decidedly less geared to the techno scene than the CTMFs (for which my own personal musical barometer is grateful).

Anyway, the Maritimes are worth the drive in their own right, and finally getting to an Evolve some time soon will no doubt add to the experience (not the least because I won't have to be talking so much out my ass).

[SaggyBalls]

Not having been to an Evolve, I stick my neck out saying this, but I expect this is an apples/oranges thing, just because the CTMF as I now know it (viz., Izzy's) couldn't take the volume of people at an Evolve - and good thing too.

if the volume were there the venue would have to change. i don't think mark wilson would be opposed to getting a bigger venue.

I think it may also be a question of addressing the needs of different audiences, too, and from what I gather, Evolves are decidedly less geared to the techno scene than the CTMFs (for which my own personal musical barometer is grateful).

uh...DJs all night at evolve. livetronica at CTMF

the techno scene is not based in livetronica. live dance music is a niche market. i understand where you're coming from with that logic though. Evolve has more funk/groove and then strictly recorded dance music where CTMF has acts that make live dance music...

Anyway, the Maritimes are worth the drive in their own right, and finally getting to an Evolve some time soon will no doubt add to the experience

Dude...if you can go i'd suggest it. Make sure to have an east coast experience if you go though. I just went for evolve. i was glad i went but wish i would've had the time and money to do an east coast road trip.

If you're going on a festival trip though there are a lot of amazing festivals just south of the border that would save you and your growing family a lot of money.

moe.down comes to mind...I'd spend the extra loot on hitting another fun weekend extravaganza.

[SmoothedShredder]

What the hell?! Was everyone at Alice Fazooli's tonite?

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

a wise man once said "IF YOU BUILD IT, THEY WILL COME"

[SmoothedShredder]

A foundation is like a boat in a sea of dirt.

[SaggyBalls]

dima - set it up.

i'm sure you could do it with the right planning or at least find some people with about $50K to plop onto a festival like that.

[secondtube]

i've missed the last two CTMF's for different reasons, but if they started DJ's there, like Evolve, it would be the nail in my coffin.

personally, the reason the festi's and the 'scene' is 'suffering'....the bands....

we are kinda in a rut.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

[rant]I have impossible difficulties with music that plays itself. Makes me think too much of the mechanisation of society and the kind of obsession the Fascists in the 1920s and 30s had with perfecting the rhythm of machines and with the gradual elimination of the human element with all its imperfections and weaknesses.[/rant]

[secondtube]

and my comment above is certainly not pointed at any one band...thats for sure....

(dont want anyone to take it the wrong way)

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I wouldn't have thought so; I was just thinking that I would rather see a band that was a bit "off" than to listen to something that was mostly coming out of the tail end of a bunch of computer circuits (with nothing/no one really to watch).

[TomFoolery]

Hey DEM,

I bet you know where this is coming from :-)...

I'd really like to take you to a good electronica party (emphasis on the 'good'). There is a degree of artistry in spinning records.

I'm with you to a certain degree. Being a strings player myself, my preference is always with live acts. My biggest beef with the electronic scene is that the producers don't get the big bucks - its the face up front.

More often than not in the electronic scene, though, the big faces up front are capable producers as well. There are also some KILLER live electronica acts.

However, my main thing to point out here is that the criteria I use to judge a dj or electronica act are completely different than those I use in judging a live music act. For live music, there is a necessary component of technical proficiency that can be seen, heard and felt. This has to be well balanced by the art of hitting the vibe required for the crowd to go nuts.

With electronica, the big thing is to be able to create that vibe - first and foremost. A good dj draws from a shit-pile of music and weaves together a textured set that works on the crowds emotions in a much more concentrated way than a live band would. There is also a technical side where a good dj will blend well, at the appropriate moments and to great effect. It isn't simply running one record, then another, then another in a random selection.

If you don't believe me, sit behind a set of decks and try to churn out a simple twenty minute set of tunes that make you proud...

[Im going home Donny]

www.shambhalamusicfestival.com

[AD]

[rant]I have impossible difficulties with music that plays itself. Makes me think too much of the mechanisation of society and the kind of obsession the Fascists in the 1920s and 30s had with perfecting the rhythm of machines and with the gradual elimination of the human element with all its imperfections and weaknesses.[/rant]

I dare you not to have a good time at a Chemical Brothers 'show.'

AD

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

With electronica, the big thing is to be able to create that vibe - first and foremost. A good dj draws from a shit-pile of music and weaves together a textured set that works on the crowds emotions in a much more concentrated way than a live band would.

Granted, I think - there is absolutely something to having a command of a wide range of music that can reflect and act on the vibe in a room, and having a good handle on the associations that people bring to certain music will only deepen that.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just a luddite; I just know I'd rather wash my dishes by hand than leave them to the dishwasher.

That said, I'm game to give it a better chance if you do have a line on something good.

[SaggyBalls]

Hey Mousey! Your views on DJs will definitely change if you ever check out the Gratefully Deadicated Soundsystem.

Rory's got over 600 hours of dead that he mixes and tweaks, working tirelessly for hours, rarely looking up. filtering, overlaying, weaving together.

And if you ever have the chance to catch a Live PA show you'll want to get yourself some oscillators and drum machines.

I understand the magic that your hands can emote through reeds, mouthpieces, strings and skins vibrating against metal and wood but to say that one is inherently etter or has more merit is pretty short sighted. I understand though as we both wear glasses. I've had the same sentiments in the past.

I really like DJs as a part of a band, as well as sequencers/laptoppers. If somebody's a musician a turntable can be a far more powerful tool than a guitar or a piano.

I think we're in a rut too. there are fewer and fewer real 'jambands' that do it for me these days. I'm always glad to be floored when i have an amazing time at a show. I hope SoOn can get a decent festival that brings the heady kids from all walks of life together.

I really want to see a time where the hipster/hippy/raver/rocker division is seen as immature and unnecessary, as that would be an amazing concert. Sometimes though, it's better to be able to focus on one mood.

I just hope we get out of this rut and support some of our talent here in Canada.

just think - the parties in frontier town got too big and they had to move (that's political issue that ties in draw, no need to rehash the dilemma there). how come the parties didn't continue to draw??

I think there's a huge potential with private parties, but in that comes seclusion. Where can you throw massive parties close enough for people to drive to while keeping the people contained, safe, and happy??

here are some issues:

local kids coming out and causing problems for the festival

townspeople finding out and causing issue

insurance/security/paramedics

food

hygene

power

talent

volunteers

advertising

transportation

facilities

sound/noise

talent/performers

budget - so you don't have to fill up time with 'lesser' bands (not to be a snob but a high caliber event loses credibility when the schedule is filled out with bar bands)

it could be done but it'd take a great venue with great neighbours that won't complain about 24h parties.

[Esau]

I just hope we get out of this rut and support some of our talent here in Canada......

budget -so you don't have to fill up time with 'lesser' bands (not to be a snob but a high caliber event loses credibility when the schedule is filled out with bar bands

Isn't bringing the bands that play bars (not refering to tribute or cover bands) to festivals one way of supporting the local bands here in Canada?

Seems hard to support upcoming bands when you only book bigger bands that are for the most part already established.

[Deeps]

i've missed the last two CTMF's for different reasons, but if they started DJ's there, like Evolve, it would be the nail in my coffin.

personally, the reason the festi's and the 'scene' is 'suffering'....the bands....

we are kinda in a rut.

hmmmmmm....need examples here...the past vs present.

What did the bands do that made it work previously that they don't now?

Interested.

Edited October 18, 2005 by Guest

[Deeps]

I suspect our (SoOn) huge population with a massive amount of options on any and every given weekend may be taking it's toll.

Somehow I doubt that the East Coasters have a tonne of options on the Evolve weekend and thus anyone who'd want to go would simply just go.

CTMF May 24 was quite well populated from what I'd heard.

Oh and Suburbia is taking over and suburbanites are notoriously huge lame asses who don't know how to seek out entertainment outside the walls of the closest mall....infuriating drone colonies.

[weezy]

CTMF this year - meh... There were TWO - count em' TWO bands that covered Stairway to Heaven. Along with countless other Zepplin/AC-DC covers. There was also that unscheduled band that was put on at 9:30-11pm on the Sunday night (prime time slot) that sucked more than any other band has attempted to suck ever. What was up with that?? It made the festival feel like a white trash field party instead of a professional production. There were too many bands there and too many of them had no business being on stage. The few good bands played at weird times or were put in-between crappy ones (there were a few exceptions) - for a festival that's been going for many years, I was surprised at how half-assed it was.

Evolve: Didn't really do it for me this year either: no real headliners, bad overlapping, bad DJ's (I like DJ's, just not crappy ones) and no pageantry or ambience, where was the spirit?

Promoters: put livetronica bands on AT NIGHT - it just makes sense.

I think if the right person gets behind it, then southern Ontario could have a great festival.

/rant

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Wow, and here I thought I'd actually had a good time at the CTMFs this year....

[weezy]

I was at the CTMF a few years ago w/ Drums & Tuba, Jukejoint, BNB, etc. and it was AWESOME, I give it an A+. This year's (Labour Day) CTMF was a C- at best. I had fun around the campfires, but the music was disappointing, that's all I was sayin'.