Conservatives would cut GST: Harper

[ollie]

when it comes to tax cuts and increases...i do not trust the liberals...mcguinty's increasing taxes while decreasing services after the ontario election shows me where this party's principals are at. provincial, federal, doesn't matter to me, it's the same party, same flag, same bullshit.

Not me. I'd have no qualms voting PC in a provincial election if I thought they were the better choice. But I will never vote for them in a federal election.

[SmoothedShredder]

So you're saying you don't want a tax cut... got it. It is just a single issue, but it certainly ties into alot more... the subcontext is "We will streamline government, and won't need as much tax to make things work as well, if not better than the Liberal alternative."

Another thing, I'm not too keen on Harper being the figurehead for international relations, but he sure will improve our relationship with the outgoing US aministration and get the momentum going in the right direction when the US amin dies in three years. Then another Minority government... then Peter McKay will be Prime Minister in and around 2010. Hopefully sitting on a debt 1/4 the size that it is now.

Speaking internationally and how it relates to your tax dollars, the cut will get your $100 a whole lot more buying power... call it reduced inflation, or call it a stronger international dollar, that $100 will go further. It's about the floating mean, debt load, credit rating, and cash flow. Through these mechanisms we will better position ourselves to more effectively combat poverty, health care, and other social issues, such as roads, schools, and the environment. That is if the Conservatives continue their tradition of attacking the deficit, and holding back on new spending (if not cutting it). I'm not saying that I don't want spending on programs, I just hate it when only 60% of the value of our dollar can get spent on services because we spend so much just paying the interest on the debt)... it's crazy... don't spend money you don't have. But in terms of our country, the world just doesn't stop... so where is the middle line? My middle line would have a strong dollar so I could buy more services (relative to what we have now for less)... now it is time to get there.

In conclusion, I'd rather everyone in Canada get a break, than just a few lucky Liberals in Quebec. And not that I'm anti-Quebec or anything, but it would be nice to have a prime Minister in my lifetime who doesn't come from Quebec thank you very much. Oh yeah, there was Joe Clark when I was one...

~W

If you're lucky I'll tell you how I paid for school in 2002 by working for Jean Cretien for a month. I'm the first to admit they paid too much, but I really like the fleece I got out of the deal. I'm sure it was worth $100.

[d_rawk]

Go Tax cut! I bet he'll do it... and if you think that a 2% break on everything you buy... legally, isn't a good thing, then keep voting NDP. I hear they have some Commodore 64's ready to 'upgrade' our healthcare system.

Actually, that has got it pretty backwards. The GST is a regressive tax in that the burden is disproportionately higher the lower your income. As such, the NDP is generally opposed to it. Their 2004 policy proposals involved eliminating the GST completely on family essentials, while maintining it on luxury items. As well as targetted income tax cuts.

The party now has Bay-street economists running and advising policy (ie. Paul Summerville).

The Conservatives GST tax cut actually runs counter to what conservatives (little 'c' *and* big 'c') generally stand for. It's election tactics, that's all.

I've written about this here (Nov. 19) and here (Nov. 23).

[edit: oops, and here]

The (C/c)onservative pundits are pretty up in arms about this. The Liberal's income tax cut proposals are far more in keeping with conservative tastes.

[edit:] Also, remember that it was Mulroney's Progressive Conservative government that introduced the GST in the first place. The two Federal parties that support consumption taxes in principle are the Conservatives and the Greens.

Edited December 1, 2005 by Guest
wrote about it 3 times, it seems

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

If I was running for election I would propose to raise the G.S.T. by one percent--yes, you heard me correctly RAISE THE G.S.T.

[SevenSeasJim]

If I was running for election I would propose to raise the G.S.T. by one percent--yes, you heard me correctly RAISE THE G.S.T.

More money to waste.

But i'd vote for you :wink:

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

However, only 6% would be set aside for

"internal" use.

[SmoothedShredder]

Actually, that has got it pretty backwards. The GST is a regressive tax in that the burden is disproportionately higher the lower your income. As such, the NDP is generally opposed to it. Their 2004 policy proposals involved eliminating the GST completely on family essentials, while maintining it on luxury items. As well as targetted income tax cuts.

The party now has Bay-street economists running and advising policy (ie. Paul Summerville).

The Conservatives GST tax cut actually runs counter to what conservatives (little 'c' *and* big 'c') generally stand for. It's election tactics, that's all.

I've written about this here (Nov. 19) and here (Nov. 23).

The (C/c)onservative pundits are pretty up in arms about this. The Liberal's income tax cut proposals are far more in keeping with conservative tastes.

Keep in mind that government services also pay the GST, so even if they get less money, they will be spending less, especially in industries like hospitals where there is alot of inter-industry trading.

Your proposal in having no GST for low income familys sounds nice, but what is a family essential... 1 lbs. of bologna vs. 1bs. of prochito (sp?)... both foods, same animal (I think), but someone who could afford the more expensive alternative would save a whole lot more money. Fine then don't consider Prochitto a family essential... you'd need a huge committee to make all the possible distictions and ratify it. It sounds really expensive... for a money saver.

And proposing a tax cut may run conter to what "C/conservatives" stand for, but by gun they'll do what they say... not like when Cretien said he would scrap it, then forgot about that promise for 12 years (becasue it was a good/nescecary idea then, even though it killed the PC's). He even made so much money he could trim the fat and give it to all his friends!!! It's only fitting that the Conservatives feel that it's about time to roll it back... in small conservative steps.

And BTW... the Conservatives have had Baystreeters for years. It's the Environmentalists I want to see go Blue, and not Red. I like their influence, just don't hand em a blank cheque. Cept maybe for a few hundred dozen wind farms.

[SmoothedShredder]

PS... I read your blog D Rawk, you have a good thing going!

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

the other 2 % would be set aside for external use over, in otherwords, I propose that Canada would be the first country to pay tax to put towards, other countries that need it... ex. disaster relief, foreign aid/relief... That would be my platform.

[ollie]

So you're saying you don't want a tax cut... got it.

If you're talking to me then you are absolutely correct. I don't need a tax cut. I appreciate the benefits I receive from paying taxes.

[Birdy]

i want a tax cut.. desperately. i don't appreciate things like 1-800-o-canada.

i travel a lot in the U.S. and not paying fifteen percent on top of everything you buy really jades you when you come back and do.

[d_rawk]

Smoothedshredder:

Well, it's not my policy ... I'm not an NDP member, though I do tend to vote that way. And I'm not opposed to the GST cut, just pointing out the distinction that the NDP is opposed to the GST, not in favour of maintaining it or raising it (which is the impression I got from your original post).

low income familys sounds nice, but what is a family essential... 1 lbs. of bologna vs. 1bs. of prochito (sp?)

No, the idea is to begin with eliminating the GST altogether on those expenditures which are necessary for everyone - rich, poor, or middle class alike. Food, medication, hygeine products, children's clothing.

This addresses the problem that the GST, while having the surface appearance of being 'flat' or 'fair', amounts to a higher tax the lower your income (as percentage of total tax paid as percentage of overall income). It also gives significant tax relief to everyone.

It's the Environmentalists I want to see go Blue, and not Red. I like their influence, just don't hand em a blank cheque.

Under Jim Harris, they've done that. Many of the original founders and supporters of the Green Party of Canada have left in droves. Harris is widely seen as a conservative trying to pretty up conservative policies with environmental feel-goodism. The feeling that the party has been hijacked into a cult of personality for Harris is widespread.

The Sierra Club and other environmental groups consistently rate the NDP environmental platform as superior to the present GPC platform.

The various Green parties the worldover are pretty critical of the Canadian Green Party and now see it as out of step with the worldwide Green movement. But it has become a good home for conservatives with an environmental conscience.

We're not so far apart on this ... I'm not attacking the Conservative's proposal on its merits. I just needed to take issue with the idea that the NDP would want to maintain or raise the GST, which I think is a common misconception. Given the surpluses and fiscal condition of the country, the NDP has been in favour of maintaining balanced budgets and introducing tax cuts for awhile now. And the GST in particular has always been viewed as a backwards tax.

[SmoothedShredder]

This is Canada, we're not far apart on anything, excpet Geography, and tone (not personal)

[bradm]

This is Canada, we're not far apart on anything, excpet...

...spelling.

Aloha,

Brad

[d_rawk]

This is Canada, we're not far apart on anything, excpet Geography, and tone (not personal)

Heh. :)

You've got to know me in person so that you can mentally associate my shy - almost apologetic - self-conscious smirk with the words, I guess (hmm.. what font colour is that? Maybe I'll take to posting entirely in pink).

As to your other point, it's a good one. Somewhere else, someone made the remark that the full political spectrum in Canada is best represented by the difference between Kerry and Leiberman.

[Lazlo]

Everyone should keep in mind that the 7% GST tax replaced a 13% manufacturers tax. Fuck lowering the GST and give me back my fuckin' check every 3 months. If Harper really wants votes he should rethink his stand on abortion and native rights.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Everyone should keep in mind that the 7% GST tax replaced a 13% manufacturers tax. Fuck lowering the GST and give me back my fuckin' check every 3 months. If Harper really wants votes he should rethink his stand on abortion and native rights.

I think you're forgetting something really, really important, which is that Harper is a tool of people who are even bigger tools.

[Lazlo]

Like Tooly?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I knew it - Tooly is, in fact,

I'm downright mad, that was so clever....

I hate cyberspace, it's so confusing.

[Edit to add:] I'm watching for you at the next CTMF, you bastard !

Edited December 2, 2005 by Guest
It all makes sense now.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

think outside the box.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I'm trying these days to think inside the double ply.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

I have a question for all of you politics followers-- would the majority of Canadian voters be 2nd generation Canadians + or would landed immigrants, or 1st generation Canadians be the majority???

Edited December 2, 2005 by Guest

[Jaimoe]

I have a question for all of you politics followers-- would the majority of Canadian voters be 2nd generation Canadians + or would landed immigrants, or 1st generation Canadians be the majority???

What about 3rd, 4th etc... generation Canadian voters?

[Velvet]

And where did those tax cuts go might I ask? Defence - No

Health Care - No

Environment - No

This is as far as I can see, I may be wrong (gawd knows I have been before) but from where I'm sitting, tax cuts are great and all but the proceeds from these cuts should actually fund something besides pre-election buy-offs.

Ummm....Tax cuts means we pay less tax and the government gets LESS money, right? Meaning there can be no proceeds from tax cuts.

Perhaps my mind is elsewhere.

[SteveThe Owl]

You know, a tax cut would be nice, but I can think of a few dozen other reasons I don't vote Tory any more.

Put simply, I'm too smart to be bribed with a tax cut -- look at the U.S. deficit as a shining example of a warmed-over abuse of Thatcherism.

A wiser man put it best: "Taxes are the price we pay for a civilized society." As long as the governing party doesn't bugger about with our money -- as they have with the whole sponsorship scandal, just for starters -- I really don't mind the taxes I pay. The problem isn't taxes, but who abuses them. Which is why I am seriously mulling over who I'll be voting for next month, but it isn't much more likely to be the Conservatives than the Liberals.