ollie Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I know we're all probably electioned-out but today was a pretty big day. Harper sworn in as 22nd prime ministerMichael Fortier, Harper's national campaign co-chair, [was a surprise in Harper's cabinet]. Fortier, who is not elected, will serve as minister of public works and government services.It surprised me that a cabin minister doesn't have to hold a seat in the house of commons. Can the prime minister pick anybody to sit in the cabinet? Do they draw a salary? How common is this practice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 yay peter mackay! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 haha my friend just asked how peter mackay can be both minister of foreign affairs and minister of the atlantic canada opportunities agency and then came to the sordid conclusion that well, there really isn't any atlantic canada opportunities, so it really won't be much to juggle. :crazy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr_Evil_Mouse Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Vic Toews... *shudder*.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 I know we're all probably electioned-out but today was a pretty big day. Harper sworn in as 22nd prime ministerMichael Fortier, Harper's national campaign co-chair, [was a surprise in Harper's cabinet]. Fortier, who is not elected, will serve as minister of public works and government services.It surprised me that a cabin minister doesn't have to hold a seat in the house of commons. Can the prime minister pick anybody to sit in the cabinet? Do they draw a salary? How common is this practice?I believe that the only pre-requisite is holding Canadian citizenship. It doesn't happen very often that the government looks to non-MPs to hold cabinet positions, but in a young and relatively inexperienced governing party like this one, I can see why Harper might need to take that route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeker Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 (edited) Should have picked this guy Emerson defected!?!? Hux isn' that your old boss? Edited February 6, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Can be done, but is pretty much never done. There is a general expectation that a cabinet minister should a) be an elected MP, and be available in the House of Commons to answer questions and generally be accountable for his/her actions. A lot of Conservative supporters seem to be kinda pissed right now, because part of their support for Harper was based on the belief that he would play the straight and narrow and not play any games. But today ... - appointed a senator (a practice he has long been opposed to): check. - appointed an unelected cabinet minister (something he vowed, during the election, that he would not do): check. - solicted a member of the Liberal party to cross the floor in exchange for a cabinet position (after suggesting such actions were unconscionable because of the Brison and Stronach affairs): check. And the Albertan conservatives seem really miffed at the perceived meagre representation of Alberta (3 MPs) in the new Cabinet. (Please note to CPC supporters -- these are not necessarily *my* complaints. I'm personally more worried about Flaherty and Clement being in positions of federal power) Stockwell Day as Minister of Public Safety and Vic Toews as Minister of Justice? Ah, this oughta be fun :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 yay peter mackay!The Foreign Affairs portfolio is where ambitious politicians are put to die.Interesting that Harper went so far as to scrap the position of Deputy PM entirely rather then have to give MacKay the position. The question in my mind isn't *if* the knives will come out, but whether it will be MacKay or Flaherty brandishing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 6, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 - appointed an unelected cabinet minister (something he vowed, during the election, that he would not do): check.Stephen Harper's response wasn't reassuring:"If you look carefully at what I said in the election campaign, I did leave open that possibility," he told reporters after the cabinet was sworn in. (cbc.ca)Bouche summed it up to me best... "I said maybe."Vic Toews as Minister of Justice? Ah, this oughta be fun :laugh:This is from his Wikipedia entry. Joy.Toews was initially considered a moderate figure in the Canadian Alliance, but later became known for endorsing several socially conservative causes. He is a vocal opponent of same-sex marriage, and has argued that changing the definition of marriage in Canada could result in bigamy being legalized.[50] In 2005, he launched an extended filibuster to delay committee work on the same-sex marriage issue.[51] Toews was also a vocal opponent of Bill C-250, which was brought forward in 2003 to make sexual orientation a protected category under Canada's hate crime legislation. He argued that the bill could restrict freedom of expression and religion, and was quoted as saying, "A homosexual activist could go to the Holiday Inn, say, and tell them, 'We'll sue you for the removal of those Bibles because they constitute hate literature'".[52] Toews has also argued that religious organizations should be permitted to deny gay organizations the use of their facilities,[53] and believes that the age of sexual consent in Canada should be raised from fourteen to sixteen.[54] He continues to oppose the federal gun registry, and opposes the decriminalization of cannabis.[55] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Can be done, but is pretty much never done. I thought that too, but apparently all but 3 PMs since 1935 have done so. Turner, Campbell, and I forget the other.AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 (edited) Heh And Day (besides his other obvious shortcomings) wanted to close down the Alberta legislature because he didn't like that the people there argued with him about policy. He also continually attacked and harassed a lawyer for (gasp!) defending a man accused of sexual assault in court. Someone who understands the principals of neither democracy nor law is looking out for my safety? And CSIS, for crying out loud? Fffaaannnn-tastic. [Edit:] AD: Oh. Interesting. Show's what I know :blush:. Edited February 6, 2006 by Guest I got schooled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timouse Posted February 6, 2006 Report Share Posted February 6, 2006 Vic Toews... *shudder*.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted February 7, 2006 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 - solicted a member of the Liberal party to cross the floor in exchange for a cabinet position (after suggesting such actions were unconscionable because of the Brison and Stronach affairs): check.I love this story that I just found on freedominon.ca of all places: Easy win for EmersonSurprised by his sizeable margin of victory in Vancouver-Kingsway, David Emerson says he's ready to rattle cages in Ottawa. At the Golden Swan, a Chinese restaurant on Victoria Drive, supporters chanted his name as Emerson arrived to deliver his victory speech. "I feel very happy with the results," said the former cabinet minister. "This is traditionally NDP territory and to win again feels good." The riding was expected to be close, but Emerson jumped ahead early and extended his lead on NDP candidate Ian Waddell by more than 4,000 votes. Emerson added he is going to enjoy keeping tabs on Prime Minister-elected Stephen Harper. "I'm going to be Stephen Harper's worst enemy," he warned. "We're going to stir the pot and you better believe we are going to make a heck of a lot of noise." :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 yay peter mackay!The Foreign Affairs portfolio is where ambitious politicians are put to die.hmm.. i've always viewed that particular portfolio as the most prestigious of them all. frankly if you're not the man in the limelight, it's best to be the man behind the man in the limelight. i'd argue you d_rawk that this is probably the most advantageous position that harper could have given mackay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I totally agree that it is an important position. It is also a good way to get somebody out of the limelight (as you say), off of the television circuit, out of the house (because you are on planes, in other countries, at conferences) so that they don't get the media coverage, and mired in all manner of extraneous matters entirely outside of their own control.André OuelletLloyd AxworthyJohn ManleyBill GrahamPierre PettigrewPeter MacKayHistorically (under a different title), it sometimes was a way to move on in politics (even towards Prime Minister). In recent tradition, it has become a bit of a banishment. Given the heat and jockeying between Harper and MacKay, I suspect this appointment is intended to be a bit closer to the more recent tradition than the former. But MacKay can turn it around, and probably will. He pointed out himself that this is a minority Parliament, and Harper will have little choice but to keep him close to home when he can because he will need the votes in the house. (One of the mistakes that Joe Clark made, and presumably Harper has learned from) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 But MacKay can turn it around, and probably will. He pointed out himself that this is a minority Parliament, and Harper will have little choice but to keep him close to home when he can because he will need the votes in the house. (One of the mistakes that Joe Clark made, and presumably Harper has learned from)exactly. peter is probably the most respected of all the cabinet ministers harper has chosen (probably another reason harper is keeping him so close) and can be advantageous to harper depending on how the cards play out. but depending on how the cards are going to be played out, peter is in a position to trump harper should it ever come down to it. if i were him, i'd be extremely pleased with the appointment. all he has to do is keep his wits about him and stay true to his politics. god, i love that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothedShredder Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 (edited) André OuelletLloyd AxworthyJohn ManleyBill GrahamPierre PettigrewPeter MacKayIsn't that where Liberal Foreign Affairs ministers were put to die. In constrast I think Peter McKay is going to do a fine and lengthy job at this posistion in a government committed to improving it's international image. If they lose the next election... his tenure at Foreign affairs will best prepare him for Leading the party. He is undoubtably the next in line. Edited February 7, 2006 by Guest typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d_rawk Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Isn't that where Liberal Foreign Affairs ministers were put to die Absolutely, you're right. The title didn't exist prior to Chretien. I've got some hope for MacKay, too (he is a bit of a weasel, but all in all, I can't help but root for him). I think back to the pre-election days and the early election days where MacKay seemed to be (intentionally?) completely off message with Harper, and seemed to be positioning himself for when Harper failed (but didn't), and how Harper kept him out of his inner circle even while he was "Deputy Leader". No doubt Stephen is acutely aware of the danger that Peter represents to his own leadership. I'm with you and Birdy on this. I think Harper has one thing in mind, MacKay another, and that ultimately MacKay will probably turn out to be the better tactitian. But FA is full of landmines, and Harper is a very patient, long-view kind of man in a way that MacKay may not be. *shrug* Time will tell. We're just playing tabloid politics here, afterall [was nice to meet you in person finally, by the way] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothedShredder Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Yes ditto. Was a great show that night.Looking forward to future political discussions.BTW Mr. Moderator: What about a politics forum? Or something to filter the Music/Shows listings from the debates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 YWhat about a politics forum? Oh young grasshopper, don't you see that everything is about politics on this message board? AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SmoothedShredder Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 Yikes... I better start watching what I say Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deranger Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 why aren't all the Big-C and small-c conservatives screaming bloody-murder about someone switching parties? Oh yeah cause they switched to their party. Fucking retarded conservative hypocrites. I hope Herr Harpur's reign makes Canadian history as the shortest lived parliament. I hate politics for this very reason: say anything to get control, then forget everything you said to get there (and yes Liberals are as bad at this as anybody). Double-speaking, jive talking...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Im going home Donny Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 I think a politics forum would rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SevenSeasJim Posted February 7, 2006 Report Share Posted February 7, 2006 (edited) Let's not forget about "2-tier Tony" as the Health Minister. Edited February 7, 2006 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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