Hux Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 With all due respect - I think the generalization of Americans in some of the ways asserted above, are equal or worse than the "communist/fascist" lables attributed to them. Who are the real fascists if we're judging people by what's written on their birth certificate?? Realize that there are as many "stupid" people per-capita in the US as there are in Canada. We tend to judge the intelligence of Americans on how much/little they know about Canada. This is truly a selfish way to look at it....really who the fuck are we?? We are a nation of 25 million, situated next to the most powerful nation in the world, and we reap the economic, and security benefits while maintaining a distinct system and culture. That we should have equal knowledge of each other is ridiculous. Internationally, we sleep in the same bed as an elephant, and are damn lucky we do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 I don't think anyone really meant to call all Americans anyting, let alone fascists or commies. We as Canadians do have a disctinct vantage point though, in that we have a liberal and informed upbringing (at least I did) and the smallamount of distance which allows us to stir the shit up without being looked down upon or fear of retirubution. But the smartest people of all are Americans. They have Chomsky, Moore and others who question and demand answers of their goverments. I met kids throughout the Northeast who belived fimrly that George Bush was working against the interestes of his people. There are no all-encompassing truths. The "great-secret" is just that. A secret, which in it's revelation destroys itself and those who may have sought it. think big, act small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tooly Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 yeah they let me in even tho i have a felony or federal drug record,, one count of pot, one fail to appear, and one count of extacy, which is federal or whatever,,, they still let me in though cuz my mom is an american citizen quote: i don't know about that ---- my mom's a yankee and she tried when i was younger to get me and my sis dual citizenship, but they wouldn't let us. not that i've ever been denied entry, so maybe that's a whole other deal. when i've been pulled in for questioning my parents nationality never even came up. i know that you have to live in the US till your 25 or something before you can move and still have your US citizenship,, also, when she moved to canada she has to keep her landed immigrant status, not switch over to canadian citizenship i got pulled off a bus last yr and they werent going to let me in, fingerprinted me, took me in a back room, and started list after list of questions, well one list was like :where were your parents born and blah blah,, so i told em my ma was a yank and they said well shit we cant say no to you its weird i feel bad for other folks that cant get in just for some dinkyass record. boourns heres a good story bout ignant yankees that i experienced in NH at ween, it was after teh show, and im wearing a blunt papers shirt,, eazy wider was the brand, this kid comes up and tells me that theyre made in france and i shoudlnt use them,, so i ask him why i shouldnt use them just cuz theyre french, well he says they didnt support our war, they do this and they do that,, and basically the french are crap. so i say to him well im canadian, thank god, and i think france has more culture and taste under its fingernail then america has as a whole, and i think you just proved that pretty damn good. he was speechless for about 45 seconds then he mutters something about canadian hosers and stumbles off, funny stuff on one level but not on an other sorry for rambling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Esau Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 Sometimes when I reflect back on all the beer I drink I feel ashamed. Then I look into the glass and think about the workers in the brewery and all of their hopes and dreams. If I didn't drink this beer, they might be out of work and their dreams would be shattered. Then I say to myself,It is better that I drink this beer and let their dreams come true than be selfish and worry about my liver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfmaster C Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 quote:Originally posted by tonyrage: But the smartest people of all are Americans. They have Chomsky, Moore and others who question and demand answers of their goverments. I met kids throughout the Northeast who belived fimrly that George Bush was working against the interestes of his people. i think chomsky and moore are smart people, and play an important role, but i don't think they are alone in the world -- by that i mean they are so highly regarded primarily because they are american - they are speaking out against their own, and doing it well. people with similar views who are also well spoken exist around the world, but as i tried to say in an earlier post, i think it means a lot more to work for change within your own country. quote: I don't think anyone really meant to call all Americans anyting, let alone fascists or commies. We as Canadians do have a disctinct vantage point though, in that we have a liberal and informed upbringing (at least I did) and the smallamount of distance which allows us to stir the shit up without being looked down upon or fear of retirubution. i think you're right on with that - we do have a unique vantage point, and i think it's good to get discussions like this going on with input from americans too. we have that ability being so close, we ought to take advantage of it. think big, act small. that's it. it's easier to act small when you can make the connection that your actions are a part of something bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weezy Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 quote:Realize that there are as many "stupid" people per-capita in the US as there are in Canada. WRONG! Seriously, have you talked to them?? In the States, they wouldn't be considered stupid because everyone is equally as misinformed through their exclusively American media (no other points of view) and fictitious history classes. Anywhere else in the world, self-righteous, misinformed people are considered morons. Hence, the stereotypical daft American. All stereotypes have more than a little element of truth. If there are so many smart people there, why are they acting so stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 13, 2003 Report Share Posted August 13, 2003 I'm with Dr.Hux on this one. This thread started with "damn communist bastards" and actually became more bigoted as it went on. I agree with you Earthfreak, when you suggest grassroots activities such as supporting local agriculture. Developing our local economies and keeping foreign interests out should be our first priority. We don't need Wal-Mart. But remember that we're dealing with a whole lot more than music and food, we're talking about resource industries, auto parts, manufacturing both light and heavy. My point was not to say it was impossible to cut ourselves off from our southerly neighbours, just that it is impossible to do right now based on U.S. investment in nearly every commercial sector, and people's unwillingness to turn off Survivor. And Fuck Chomsky. Fuck Michael Moore. It all makes for good reading but it's all based on the same psychological principle as Fox News, which goes something like this: "I'm going to shock you, and blow your mind, and make you say Wow, I can't believe that! But that will be enough to make you an informed individual. Action not required". As a few have stated the think big/act small analogy is right on. Perhaps having said so will quell the idea of boycotting the world's only superpower, our neighbour, the elephant we sleep with. P.S. Tony: You need to consider why you had a liberal and informed upbringing, and realize that this is hardly representative of a nation. What role did an upper middle-class lifestyle play? Do crackwhores in Alabama don't know the first thing about alternative governance or the communist manifesto? How do you appeal to those who are below the poverty line, those who don't have the resources or capability to sit on a computer and talk about jam bands all day? This isn't a personal assault, this is my own recognition of fortune and comfort, two things that many americans/canadians don't have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 There is a lack of reading going on here. I feel like a 'Bama crack whore trying to follow Chomsky. Speaking of which, how is Chomsky sensatinal? His books are not dry, but not really well promoted or shoved in your face. People who read it, look for it. Michael Moore is sensational, but using humour to get your point out has been around since waaayyyy back in the game, and cannot be considered on par with the visual media. He has books, articles, tv shows, movies (fiction and non-fiction), as well as his own line of personal hygeine products (wel...maybe not). He is just trying to get his point out and it is his methods that are the best part, because what he says can be rather obvious to upper-middle class lucky-ass bastards like myself looking down from my perch. Also, Weezy -- I think your point about lack of viewpoints is very important. When I go on yahoo news chat boards, I am always so dismayed that there are usually two opnions expounded about a zillion times. It is either democrat or republican and there is nothing in between or outside. I think it is as a result of teh two-party system, but as Canadians we do not fare much better. Yes, we have a wide range of viewpoints, but many are ignorant and extravagant. For example, when the chief of police of toronto says that a segment of the youth are "out-of-control", I would rather not have to hear youth groups come and and get pissy because he is giving a bad name to the youth of toronto. He was very specfic in putting the blame on a "segment of the youth". People in this country read into the news things that o not exist and then only look for more "proof" of their mistaken point, ignoring all that doesn't fit. We are not free from stupidity and ignorance any more than the Alabamians with all the crack whores down there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 boycotting the US because they have a bad government right now simply isolates them from any good you have to offer being from Canada... if we end up with a shitty prime minister will it be cool if the world boycotts us... there are millions of really great Americans fighting for a better world, just as there are Canadians trying to accomplish the same... boycotting them is basically a racist stance... you're american, some americans did bad things therefore you must be bad so I'm going to pretend you don't exist... Yo got a shitty border guard who didn't like him for whatever reason... some cops are good, some cops aren't... I feel for him and deeply hope everything works out well for him and feel it will Canada is just enjoying an unprecedentedly liberal period of politics right now and I hope with all my heart this continues after the next elections... 15 years ago the canadian government wasn't this cool at all... the states needs a democrat(or better) in power again so they can start moving forward again I would say that the moral of the story is be extra careful at the border while the 911 hype continues to die down and check what the laws are with US customs if you are heading down that way with anything of questionable legality love other human beings and don't blame people who had nothing to do with a crap situation for being the cause of it politics aren't people Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 quote:Originally posted by secondtube: The bands are watered down. THere are some amazing bands, but you have to sort through tons of generic drab first. Of course, there's a lot of drab, generic shit in Canada, too. Being drab, generic and shitty isn't a musical national characteristic. No one should ever really be surprised by what American border guards (or the border guards of any country) do. They have more power than almost any other organization or individual in the country. Their decisions do not have to be fair, or enlightened, or informed. If they don't feel like letting you into the country, then that's all there is too it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
\/\/illy Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 WOW! This looks like so much fun! I wish I was sober enough to compose an intelligent response! (Actually, sobriety may not help - I know you all were thinking that!) All I want to say right now is: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a capitalist society and in being such, we vote with our dollars. Think about where you spend your money and what they are doing with it. Love and peace! (Listening to 2003-02-14 'Dead) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Sing it Sammy!!! Loose Lucy rocks that show! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfmaster C Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 i've been thinking about this for a while now. they're international policies have got me pretty pissed off. there are a few awesome bands that don't come up to canada, but that's what tapers are for, right? ok ok it's not the same.... but i think i'm up for a personal boycott -- that place is too messed up. canada is a diverse enough place with enough going on - i think i will avoid the U.S. of Assholes until they change their stinky ways. (PLEASE, Ween, come to Ontario!!!) i may not be avoiding they're products entirely, but every step counts - it's all about the intention. it sucks, though, that they're our only neighbours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bald guy in a blanket Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 Jared How are they communist, exactly? The US government is a group of righteous shitheads, but communists? Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyRage Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I think Jared means comunist in a deragotry sense without any real meaning to the word.... I disagree with the notion that we need the US like we need air. It is the largest Canadian myth going. The US will always need Canada more than we need them because we procide them with water and electricity (which we get jack shit for in return). They provide us with products and entertainment and economic forces, which with a small cut briefly in our standard of living, we can do without. The problem I have is that I have some amazing amazing friends down south who are more passionate than we are with regards to removing the damaging influence of thier own government. In fact, a great many americans in the West and Northeast would agree with most of our views, including radical views like how GWB alloed 9/11 to happen, or how they lied about all the reasons for starting the war on terroism. FYI - If you watch "Canadian Bacon", there is a scene where the power circle is trying to figure out who they can start a war with. Alan Alda actually suggests, "How about a war against international terroism", the other characters laugh that off. This was made by Michael Moore at least 6 or 7 years before 9/11. Funny, huh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 14, 2003 Report Share Posted August 14, 2003 I see Chomsky as sensationalist because he presents conspiracy theories under the guise of academia. He's got big intellectual balls and deserves credit for his work, no question. But I suspect many of his readers are drawn to his dissenting opinion alone rather than to an accurate presentation of fact and opinion. As a means of comparison, I found Klein's No Logo to be highly opinionated yet firmly grounded in what is significant and reliable data. That is something which is understandable to different levels of society. I wasn't picking on your background either Tony, I was reminding us that communicating change has to happen at all levels of society, includiong those, for example, who couldn't possibly understand buying a $15 compact fluorescent light bulb when they're bringing home $300 a week. We're the fortunate who have financial and temporal resources to stop and think about what we're doing, and how we're acting, and what could be done different. Whereas the priorities of someone who struggles every day to make ends meet, or to learn English and adjust to a new country...their priorities are much different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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