Groove Fetish Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 views on the energy production and consumption issue in Ontario and whether or not we can do without the nuclear plants coming back on line? It seems that we're managing pretty well cutting down and not starting them yet....maybe well enough to consider not turning them back on - or realizing that we can easily phase them out and switch our excess needs to green sources? thoughts..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Heard a great suggestion on CBC that I think could have an enormous impact if it became popular: Have the government fund 80% (or whatever) of costs to install solar panels or windmills on peoples homes and businesses. Then the money that the people save on their hydro bills goes directly back to the government until the debt (plus a bit of interest) is paid off. Seems to me to be in everybody's best interest to install a hundred windmills on every skyscraper in Toronto, and think what solar panels on, say, one in ten homes in Canada would do. More economy/less consumption/cheaper hydro bills/energy with zero waste or environmental detriment. Me for Prime Minister! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Good question! I think concentrating on the "green" sources is key. I've been happy to see more windmills coming up around Toronto, hopefully this will be a kick in the ass to get more. Apparently the Niagara area barely lost power 'cus of the Falls obviously, and Quebec has so much power from hydro that even if they'd been interconnected to the same degree as the rest of the big grid, they probably would have been back up in very little time anyway. And my wife and I have talked about putting some solar pannels on the roof when we get it redone - you can bet we're thinking even harder about that now! This whole thing has showed that green sources like hydro, wind and solar are a good idea not just in the long term because of waste issues etc., but in the short term when we have these sort of problems, not to mention the safety issues vs. nuclear and such. Conservation is well and good, but the reality is as our population increases and our use of various technological tools continues demand for power will grow. The growth should be in areas that are safer, less volatile and ultimately less harmful to us and our environment. Peace, Mr. M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Yay Velvet for Prime Minister! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Mr. Musicface: Yay Velvet for Prime Minister! Only if Mung would be Deputy Prime Minister (or, alternately, Secretary Of State[s of mind...]). I wonder if a sliding scale for electric bills would help. Have the utility company give you rates based on your dwelling size, # of occupants, etc., and then charge you normal rates up to a certain point, then a higher rate when you go beyond the base limit. (There could also be several rate limits, as is done with the tax system.) This would encourage people to conserve, and punish those who use more than their fair share. (Yes, it probably wouldn't work, and would be open to abuse, loopholes, and outright fraud/lying, but it might work.) Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phunky Cauldron Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Does anybody have any clue home much it would cost to outfit a typical home with solar panels? Are there any other costs other than the original installation and maybe a little maintenance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I miss my A/C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Don't know the costs involved, but if you find out let me know. I was talking to my folks and suggesting they get some stuff installed. My dad is pretty apocolyptical, so I think they might go for it. Why do I get the feeling Bradm is gonna supply us with a link? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Low Roller Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Fire up those Candu reactors so that I can play PS2 by floodlight! But seriously, alternative energy scares the daylights out some powerful lobbists, and therefore we'll never see a mass deployment of such technologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Groove Fetish Posted August 20, 2003 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 thanks for the thoughtfully replies...Velvet- I'll vote for ya for sure...need a campaign manager? but as to the powerful lobbiest that do not want it to happen... the people are the power! we have only to realize it more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Musicface Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Phunky Cauldron: Does anybody have any clue home much it would cost to outfit a typical home with solar panels? Are there any other costs other than the original installation and maybe a little maintenance? My understanding is there is HUGE variation, from a few hundred to tens of thousands depending on what you want. Here's a site with some listings: http://www.energyalternatives.ca/ - M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I'd suggest doing abit of research into solar panels before outfitting your home. One consideration is cost - while they will pay for themselves eventually, the up-front cost is pretty high right now. Secondly, consider that by installing panels on your home you will have to use highly toxic, corrosive and non-biodegradable batteries to store the power that you don't need. This type of active solar system IS more efficient and less harmful than the alternative, but for some people the fact that you will eventually be throwing out those batteries is a bit disheartening. I would actually start by changing over your lightbulbs to compact fluorescents and seeing what difference that makes. They are expensive but if you talk to people at the store that sells them, you can find out whether they're available at a discount. Here in Ottawa there's a number of community organizations that will sell you CF's at a discounted rate. I'll get back about who they are because that info is at home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ms.Huxtable Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I was watching a show the other night on solar power and it profiled a few families that live "off the grid". There was one family that lived in an RV until they can find a place that will accept their plans for a dream home. They are not allowed to build it anywhere exept for Germany though because the first thing you need to get building permits is hydro and plumbing hook-ups. There was another dude who had no choice but to live off grid because his place is so secluded in the forest. He uses running water to power a generator. Another guy has solar panels in his home, and he stores more energy than he consumes so he asked the hydro company if they wanted to purchase his excess power from him. Of course they sternly declined such a notion. Guess they prefer nuclear and oil burning power. The commentator also said that a solar panel usually takes about 7-8 years to pay for itself. Though I'm still not sure of the cost for one, that doesn't seem so bad in the long run, certainly for the environment. Of course solar panels can only be used to supplement, not replace conventional hydro, if I heard correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 There was a house that was being built in the Ottawa area I think...(it was on the NewRo) that is completely off the grid...The workers had no idea the power went off because they were only using "green" tools... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c-towns Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Canada needs to seriously consider putting more money into all the green situations in the country. Dumb asses in the government need to regognize that hemp is not pot. They're finally coming around on the marijuana issues. The possibilities for green power are endless, there are so many sources that haven't even been tapped yet. Even all the little things could save big dollars, Imagine putting stations under every overpass along the 401 to harness all the wind being created by trucks and cars flying by, all that power could at least power all the lights along that hi-way. Start small to prove the science and show the savings to all the (insert word here) Any engineers out there want to ride the wind? peace.jamesd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ScottieMac Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Wooooord, there's a home in Killaloe that uses no hydro. I read about it in Barrys Bay This Week a little while back. http://perc.ca/PEN/2000-10/s-johnson2.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tungsten Gruvsten Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I've been studying alternative energy since I was 12 - won a couple county science fairs with different projects(yeah, yeah i know...it was grey county...) Solar systems are typically high priced-$5000 for a small one $10000 to $20000 that could power a very lean home. And that's just upfront materials and installation. The batteries and storage modifiers cost more and have a finite life depending on use... California gets an average of 5KwH of solar energy per day - the great lakes region gets around 1.2KwH during it's sunniest days, and we have way less of those than cali...so this is all feasible out there but here it's not as attractive here. Then comes all the special circuitry and storage options to convert DC>AC power and store it properly, and manage a switching network between the batteries and the AC coming into the house. A large component of solar panel sales in California and sunnier climes is the 'payback' theory - where the solar energy creates enough power for the home and extra to push onto the grid. Unfortunately you would have to be in absolute sunny climes for this to happen and you wouldn't receive any money for 4-6 years when you had begun to produce more than you take in...and this also expects an amazingly energy efficient home of low wattage flourescents/solar water heaters and little or no major appliances that use electricity. A little sparkle in the sand though: solar panels have increased in efficiency many many times since they were invented...hopefully this will continue... Here's one for the nerds: www.solarpc.com Windfarms on skyscrapers have been a much talked about option for a few years as they skyscraper positioning and height generate their own winds, creating a sort of constant and maximizing the position of the windmills. I've seen that big one in TO sitting idle many times... All in all, solar isn't the best for the region - but look into geothermal heat exchange - that stuff can be implemented on a small scale(in any yard below the tundra line) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubberdinghy Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 "Solar systems are typically high priced-$5000 for a small one $10000 to $20000" Ready for a bad joke... How much for the Milky Way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PalacePrincess Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 says ahess6488: quote: I would actually start by changing over your lightbulbs to compact fluorescents and seeing what difference that makes. They are expensive but if you talk to people at the store that sells them, you can find out whether they're available at a discount. Here in Ottawa there's a number of community organizations that will sell you CF's at a discounted rate. if you don't have anything like that in your area, i know ikea sells compact fluorescent bulbs for only a few bucks apiece. in addition to using far less wattage, they also burn way longer than incandescent ones. another lighting tip, if you have any linear quartz halogen lighting in your home (i.e. those tall floor lamps with shades pointing upwards -- the bulbs are long and skinny and mount horizontally at the top of the fixture), GET RID OF THEM!!! those bulbs suck anywhere between 150-500w each, the ones supplied in most household fixtures being about 300w average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 I think it was in Saskatoon last year on the road with nero that they played a university, and the building that the bar was in was geothermally powered. I had no idea what that meant. Powered by the heat from the earth's core. Holey moley. Humans can be pretty clever once in a while. Didn't the Australian Olympics do a lot of that kinda stuff? Maybe Vancouver/Whistler should follow their lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phunky Cauldron Posted August 20, 2003 Report Share Posted August 20, 2003 Windfarms/mills on skyscrapers scares the crap out of me from an engineering perspective. Skyscrapers are already an engineering marvel what with having to deal with huge winds at high levels that make the buildings sway back and forth. Anybody ever work up high in one of them and hear the building groaning in even just moderate winds can empathize with this. So the thought of trying to trap wind on top of one of these things would prove even more difficult from an engineering standpoint. But, as Velvet mentiond "Humans can be pretty clever once in a while." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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