AdamH Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I haven't the slightest idea which party to vote in. Natural Law is my first choice but they don't have a chance unless they pump out the Yogic Flying shifts. Any thoughts on who will win/who's a good choice? I mean I know nothing about Ernie Eves except I wouldn't trust a daughter near that haircut. And Dalton Mcguinty doesn't really cut it...he's a big whiny baby and pro-palestinian (not for me thanks). That leaves Hampton who I suppose isn't bad but I don't know much about him either. Help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewie Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 funny you post this...i just came back from a d mcg press conference... ever notice dalton ALWAYS has his top button undone and his tie slightly loosened? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 It's a fairly safe bet that Hampton is pro-Palestinian as well....but why would you base your provincial vote on a foreign affairs issue - which is an area of exclusive federal jurisidiction??? No Premier will ever be making any decisions on the middle east. Never. Just FYI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 quote:From The Notebooks Of Lazarus Long: If you are part of a society that votes, then do so. There may be no candidates and measures you want to vote for... But there are certain to be ones you want to vote against. In case of doubt, vote against. By this rule you will rarely go wrong. If this is too blind for your taste, consult some well-meaning fool (there is always one around) and ask his advice. Then vote the other way. This enables you to be a good citizen (if such is your wish) without spending the enormous amount of time that truly intelligent exercise of the franchise requires. Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry jr. Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 What Brad's quote from the Lazarus thingy said. I want the Tories out, first and foremost, so even though I think Dalton McGuinty is Al Gore's younger and more robotic brother, I'm voting Liberal. I'd like to vote for the NDP, but without some sort of runoff voting system or proportional representation, I don't want to risk it. Dr. Hux, I just got your message and sent you a replie, well...it's more like a half-truth. Oh, don't you love cheesy made-up-word-bad-puns? I don't. Let's never speak of this again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted September 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 You're absolutely right Dr.Hux, his stance on the mideast wouldn't play into Provincial politics. But his decision to go to the Middle East and protest said alot (in my mind) about where his priorities are, and to overstep your bounds as an MP and do something like that which clearly does NOT represent his constituency makes me think he has trouble distinguishing personal views from political ones. It's a question of character rather than policy. One of my concerns with the NDP is that they plan to publicize Auto Insurance. While I'd support this for essential services such as energy I don't see why adding more bureaucracy and wiping out the competitive aspect of insurance is a good thing for us. I guess more importantly though, they really don't stand a chance of winning and I don't want to vote for a loser. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 One thing that might help you make up your mind is to first identify the issues that are important to you (e.g., drug laws, education, same-sex marriage, health care, etc.), then identify where you stand on those issues. After this, go and ask the candidates (not just the leaders) how they stand on these issues. When you find a candidate that matches your view(s) on the significant issue(s), vote for that candidate. (Or, follow Lazarus Long's advice, find the candidate that least matches your views, then do what you can to make sure he/she isn't elected.) Aloha, Brad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gentlemonkey Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Vive L'Ontario!! VIVE L'ONTARIO LIBRE!! Pas de confusion ici.. Votez pour moi, mes amours!! Ontario= La PLUS Belle province! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 quote: Originally posted by ahess6488: One of my concerns with the NDP is that they plan to publicize Auto Insurance....... I guess more importantly though, they really don't stand a chance of winning and I don't want to vote for a loser. Hampton is calling for a two-tier auto insurance system, only partially made public: T.O. Star Also, I think it's early days yet to consider this a two-way race (PC v. Lib). Hampton is far behind in the polls but in Canadian politics - provincial or federal - anything can happen. I, for one, am simply looking forward to a non-PC government in Ontario and I'll be watching (and listening to) McGuinty and Hampton closely to see who will get my vote. Don't worry about voting for the "loser" - even if they don't get in, a stronger NDP presence at Queen's Park will benefit everyone, except the neo-cons (and who cares about them anyway? ). But seriously, won't it be great to wake up one morning and NOT have a PC provincial government??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 When did Dalton go to the Middle East?? I didn't realize he had done that...?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted September 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Geez, I totally fucked that up. Printing the retraction as we speak. Svend Robinson was the one who demonstrated in the Middle East, not Dalton. Apologies for the misprint. Well, they look similiar no?: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 haha...glad we cleared that one up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 It's a shallow observation, I know, but am I the only one who finds Dalton McGuinty hard to look at??? I think it's those eyes. It's like he wants to eat me. I keep waiting for a panel to pop open from his back, exposing all sorts of circuits and wires and mice running in wheels.... Ok, now back to this interesting thread.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted September 10, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 Actually, svend is the one who wants to eat you...you know...down there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted September 10, 2003 Report Share Posted September 10, 2003 I usually vote Liberal as they usually seem to have the best chance of not letting the Conservatives win (anyone been reading up on how Free Trade put most small to medium size business out of work and this is considered the "stable" economic environment the PC's were hoping for... ah, don't get me started) I'd kinda like to give the NDP a run for it if for nothing other than they show up at the same protests as me... I think of the 3 big Ontario candidates I like the NDP guy best, if he looks like he has a chance he'll probably get my vote as I said, whatever I believe will keep the Conservatives (whom George Bush would be one of if he were Canadian) out of power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottieking Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 OK I don't usually pipe up but I've been spending quite a bit of time dealing with this lately (I'm teaching senior politics this year) I'd never tell anyone HOW to vote. But I'm begging everyone, please, get out there and exercise your democratic right! If you don't feel informed enough, do the research. It'll take you five minutes but it may make the difference. Here's a great link all ontario parties link If you are not sure about where you fit in on the political spectrum, take this survey political compass If you've grown cynical, but don't vote for the party that may make the most difference in your area, you have officially forfeited the right to bitch about your life in this province. Period. And for God's sake, do not vote based on "leadership" alone. Take a look at the platforms, track record, and personale. This message has been brought to you by the One Very Concerned History Teacher Association of Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottieking Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 oops here's that first url again ontario political parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Dalton's favourite show is Buffy The Vampire Slayer: that's good enough for my vote. Also, he's against privatization and is pro teachers. He ain't perfect by any means, but I'm not going to waste my vote voting for the NDP and any other party that resembles Mickey Mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by scottieking: If you've grown cynical, but don't vote for the party that may make the most difference in your area, you have officially forfeited the right to bitch about your life in this province. Period. And for God's sake, do not vote based on "leadership" alone. Take a look at the platforms, track record, and personale. yeah man!! its our world too... things like this discussion board could actually affect some polls think about it, talk about it, ask your local rep if they'll meet your interests, bug your friends to vote (have a voting day party!) whilst down in the states and talking politics over balloons, most touring americans I spoke with told me that most Republicans(money-wranglers) won because a lot of Democrats(more hippy-ish sorta sometimes) couldn't be bothered to vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schwa. Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 "This anonymous clan of slack-jawed troglodytes has cost me the election, and yet if I were to have them killed, I would be the one to go to jail. That's democracy for you." ~Monty Burns Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 I wasn't going to speak up. But I have to. It just irks me to no avail that there are so many NDPers that don't want to "waste" their vote. The last time these people all just "wasted" their vote in Ontario we ended up with an NDP government (sort of, so Premier Bob's a bad example, its the only one I've got). And on top of that the percentages do mean something, it means "hey, a lot of people liked the NDP platform, wonder what I can steal from them, or have them introduce". Thats why/how we have universal healthcare in Canada if I'm not mistaken. So don't vote stategically, vote for the ideas that you align with most. (or follow the advice above and do the opposite of what anyone says, but make the anyone come from somewhere other then hear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry jr. Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 quote: Originally posted by MoMack: I wasn't going to speak up. But I have to. It just irks me to no avail that there are so many NDPers that don't want to "waste" their vote. The last time these people all just "wasted" their vote in Ontario we ended up with an NDP government (sort of, so Premier Bob's a bad example, its the only one I've got). And on top of that the percentages do mean something, it means "hey, a lot of people liked the NDP platform, wonder what I can steal from them, or have them introduce". Thats why/how we have universal healthcare in Canada if I'm not mistaken. So don't vote stategically, vote for the ideas that you align with most. (or follow the advice above and do the opposite of what anyone says, but make the anyone come from somewhere other then hear I sympathize with that sentiment, I really do, but there also consequences I have to face up to. For example, if you were living in the U.S. today, would you vote for Nader if he were to run in the next general election? If the Liberals have a big lead over the Tories in the polls right up to the election, I'd feel a lot safer voting for the NDP, but if it's close and the NDP is polling around 20%, what's the point? Sure I get to vote my conscience and the NDP gets to say, rightfully, that they're still relevant, but my conscience won't feel so good if the Tories stay in power. In other words, for me, having the Tories and their policies out is more important than merely voting my conscience. Again, there are consequences to consider here. Are 4 more years of PC government worth a vote of conscience? I think voting out of fear sucks and is fundamentally undemocratic, but that's why runoff voting or proportional representation are needed, and I friggin wish 3rd parties would push these issues more and team up with progressive lawyers to make the courts reconsider this BS first past the post system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Constable Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 quote:Originally posted by scottieking: If you are not sure about where you fit in on the political spectrum, take this survey political compass If you've grown cynical, but don't vote for the party that may make the most difference in your area, you have officially forfeited the right to bitch about your life in this province. Period. And for God's sake, do not vote based on "leadership" alone. Take a look at the platforms, track record, and personale. Well said!!! This is excellent advice that should serve as a general rule for everyone when attempting to cast a well thought out, informed ballot. The Canadian political system is meant to be about strong ideas and relevant policy rather than the popularity and general appeal of the individual candidates in the election. In fact, it matters very little who the Premier will ultimatley be when the government is formed because the entire party makes collective decisions and are bound to follow party lines. If you have sound opinions on certain issues find out which party represents that view and vote accordingly regardless of whether you think the leader or candidate in your riding wears ugly ties or has a bad haircut or talks with an annoying lisp. And remember, as scottieking said, if you choose not to exercise your right to vote on election day you totally forfeit your right to bitch and moan about the decisions and policies formulated by that government in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted September 11, 2003 Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 Larry Jr: I understand why you'd think like that, but I'm not sure that I buy it. The question is "would the US look any different right now had Gore been president" and the answer is likely no. Gore would have gone in to Afghanistan, maybe not Iraq, but the reality is the Democrats and Republicans are peas in a pod (both run by the Illuminati according to fictional (or is it?) writer Robert Anton Wilson, who is making me crazy right now and I highly recommend). I had the fortune of hearing Stephen Lewis speak at Queen's last night, and he said as much about the Gore and Bush. In my personal opinion you can pretty much say the same about the Liberals and PCs in Ontario, (and federally). They're both right of centre IMHO. And my cynical skeptical ass thinks that at the end of the day they'll both run things much the same. Sure Dalton won't cut the taxes as much, but he won't implement social spending which is what I vote for. I guess what I'm saying is "No matter who you vote for, the government will get in" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamH Posted September 11, 2003 Author Report Share Posted September 11, 2003 This thread can all be boiled down to one thing: proportional representation. It's what we need and I wonder if, in my lifetime, we will ever see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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