Today (9/11).

[MarcO]

Well, today's the day, the second anniversary.

What are your thoughts? Please share.

[little black dog]

Its one of those events that happen in life that you don't forget exactly what it was you were doing at the time. A terrible thing it was to see it happen live right befor your eyes.

I wonder how different are attitudes towards such events would be if live t.v. coverage exisisted during such events as the bombing of Hiroshima(?), for example.

Of course as usual I'm wondering from the main point,wouldn't ya say Marc.

[larry jr.]

Mixed feelings, I guess. I thought back to where I was when it happened, and watching those awful images on TV and just feeling sick to my stomach. But I just can't watch all this commemoration stuff.

I would have hoped 9/11 would have served as an opportunity, not just for the world to get serious about the very real threat of terrorism (which takes on many forms) and Islamic fundamentalism, but to work to make this world better and remove some of the conditions that lead to all this hatred.

Instead, the Bush administration has used 9/11 in every cynical way possible, the U.S. is still in this jingoistic mindset, and other countries have used it as an excuse to clamp down on internal dissenters.

People are still dying of curable diseases, hunger, war, and religious fanatacism doesn't seem to be on the decline.

I don't know. I'm not sure what "we" have learned in the last 2 years, and the world doesn't strike me as being any safer.

[AdamH]

It's a wierd anniversary. On one hand I feel like copying a few of the responses from the "kelowna Fires" thread to here: it's natures way, it was bound to happen, etc. Yet many innocent lives were lost and I can't be so harsh and abrasive about that. It's a sad day, but to see news articles that commemorate the victims as "true patriots" or "real americans" makes me sick. And the hardcore lefties refusing to recognize the anniversary because "9/11 would have been prevented if Bush wasn't in power" makes me equally ill. I'd say it's all very confusing and it leads me back to something my friend Yarrow said when it happened: all you can do is lead your life honestly, fairly, spiritually and with consideration for all of the people around you. If we all followed this sort of thinking we might not prevent these kinds of tragedies but we'd go further to understanding why they happen.

[jiboom]

Where was everyone for 9/11?

It was my first day of werk at the Clubhouse, a day treatment program for adults and youth with mental illness. It was a scary day for all of us. I think the live war sucked, to be honest. Every time I saw the plane go through the tower, or a bomb drop in Iraq, I thought of the human life lost. I didn't watch tv from the Wednesday the bombs started dropping on Iraq until about two months ago. I learned about the war from the newspaper and my cousin.... he was there. I listened to people's play~by~play conversations, it sounded like they were talking about a video game. Only it was real life. People became very removed, almost unhuman. Desensitized. Power truly is a dangerous thing.

So, am I sucker for punishment? Or just a sucker?

[Asparagus]

Salvador Allende (June 26, 1908 - September 11, 1973)

[paisley]

the day the Muslim world said "we don't want our society based around Wal-Mart and McDonalds, back off" and most North Americans first started considering the issue

the beginning of Bush showing the world how an enormous war machine doesn't solve all problems

a day of reflection towards all the other peoples and cultures of the world for me

[phishin4groove]

I was in Newark...so it all go down...

sad to say , but it was the only time someone could get away with going about 110mph on the NJ turnpike getting the fuk out of that area.

Saw people praying on the side of the road overlooking the city.

Was a day I'll never forget.

[c-towns]

I feel for the people who lost their lives but honestly if the anniversary wasn't all over the media I wouldn't even recognize the incident's anniversary.

The only reason I know its the anniversary is beacause its nearly impossible to get away from all forms of this distorted media.

If you cut out all forms, your bound to talk to a person who has seen or heard a form of this media and passed it along, thats how I heard this morning.

[The Constable]

quote:

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Originally posted by larry jr.:

I don't know. I'm not sure what "we" have learned in the last 2 years, and the world doesn't strike me as being any safer.

---

My often pessimistic outlook on the state of our world tells me that it will probably never be any safer than it is today or it was before 9/11 . There are simply too many competing interests and conflicting opinions about how each division of society ought to live to believe that we can all cohabitate in relative peace.

The events of 9/11 demonstrated the stark reality of our world and should have woke everyone up to the notion that you can't take your security for granted whether you live in NYC or Israel or the backwoods of Canada. It's unfortunate but in order for the global community to maintain some reasonable degree of security throughout the world we have to be suspicious of everyone and strike back hard against those individuals or groups that choose to commit these kinds of acts against humanity.

While I realize that this kind of thinking doesn't characterize the idea of a safe peaceful world order it is the truth and we have to look at the world the way it really truly is at this moment.

[paisley]

could also try being respectful to other cultures and not interfering in how they live their lives so they don't want to attack us in the first place

african farmers are getting awful pissed off because they can't make a living over the british and american owned farms in africa producing so much that the value of the native farmer's crops they've worked for centuries has dropped to nothing

upset and starve them enough and they'll eventually attack something and someone will have to send in billion dollar aircraft to blow up kids on donkeys again

if you're going to steal someone's livelihood and belittle their beliefs on how to live in this world perhaps reasonable compensation should precede the inevitable retaliation

[B & Z]

My friend just returned from Morocco where he stayed for 6 weeks playing blues in a hotel. He described the conditions as beyond horrible. The people lived in absolute filth and poverty, worse than can be imagined. He was just about killed several times and lost 20 pounds from fear and dysentry.

These are the conditions that breed hatered. People with nothing have nothing to lose. It's easy to become a religious fanatic in order to give your life meaning.

Steve

[colinw]

quote:

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Originally posted by paisley:

african farmers are getting awful pissed off because they can't make a living over the british and american owned farms in africa producing so much that the value of the native farmer's crops they've worked for centuries has dropped to nothing

---

Is that a good reason to have the African governments endorse illegal beatings, theft, and murders of the white farmers? The government is amazingly corrupt and they don't care who is black or white. They care who has the green money they want. Why should a white man born in Africa have any less right to farm how he wants than a black man? They should have equal rights to the land, and any other resources. They both belong to the same nation. Anything less is racism. Lots of the "affirmative action" being taken has caused reverse racism, and people seem fine with it. I don't understand that. The main problem is people here in Canada and the US deciding that things are unfair, instead of leaving it up to foreign nations to deal with. People shouldn't really comment unless they know exactly what they are talking about and have experienced it firsthand, not via media reports, which are biased as we all know, and usually untruthful.

Colin

[paisley]

well, I wasn't talking about blacks and whites and their civil problems within their own country... thats entirely another issue, apologies if I offended you... the point I was trying to make had nothing to do with africa specifically... if western countries go into third world countries and cash in while creating poverty that is going to lead to more anger and agression towards western countries... pretty straightforward

sorry if I'm over-simplifying... but roughly, thats what happened with the world trade center

we can wait until we get attacked again, go blow the fuck out of something, then get attacked again and so on... or start looking at why people hate western countries and do something about it... the world is getting too small for imperialism

[beaster]

The following link is the thread that was created immediately followingthe first plane crashed and updated as more people tuned in. it is shocking and a scary reminder to how f'd up that day was for everybody. crazy.

http://www.phantasytour.com/phish/boards_thread.cgi?threadID=3239&page=1

[paisley]

wow, that is heavy

[Chewie]

wow,

the sense of confusion, anger, sorrow, pain.

what a day...i will never forget it.

i remember wanting to see my son to find out if he was ok. he was only 18 months, in a day care hundreds of miles away from everything but i was still worried about him.

weird eh?

[larry jr.]

quote:

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Originally posted by Chewie:

wow,

i remember wanting to see my son to find out if he was ok. he was only 18 months, in a day care hundreds of miles away from everything but i was still worried about him.

weird eh?

---

I think that was a common feeling. I remember a distinct "OH MY GAWD" feeling when I saw that the Pentagon had been hit. I mean, if the Pentagon could be attacked, who anywhere was safe? (of course the Pentagon has made lots of others unsafe, but that's not the point here).

I guess part of it was the shock of seeing what you thought was untouchable being so vulnerable. I don't mean to downplay the obviously huge element of loss of human life, but there was something very visceral about those towers just collapsing. The enormity of it all, you know? It was just overwhelming.

Regarding that African debate, I think you can separate say, Robert Mugabe's policies, which are harmful, with Western-imposed trade/IMF policies, which are also harmful in another way.

[1979]

The United States will be needing us soon. They will be coming for sympathy once again my friend and yet we were looked at as the "losers" to them far too many times. We are a country that needs to stop looking at the States and all their cool shit and start our own shit. When I go to CTMF I'm fuckin having the best time - original music that still fits into today's genre from past society. Its strange on how Nero kicked everyones ass but badddd in the States - everyone went wahoooo! Thats only 1% of our successes - Show me such a time in the States were I can go and do the shit I do just like Frontier - not one place dude!! ALLLL TIGHT - - - - - - - - - - -- Fuck the terrorists - they have'nt picked a beef with us - we don't have beef with them. I would'nt be surprised if Bush set up already like Hitler did. Try to compare Bush and Hitler speeches - FREAKY as it is they are alike. The States were targeted and why is it that all around the world there is bombings and political unrest - because the peoples around the world are trying to free themeselves from United States "Democracy" ways. The United States is using bulldozers of dollar signs to errupt this whole planet. Look at the big picture. Why did Vietnam happen. The States assainated the South Viet Pres and appointed "THERE OWN" - So The NVA(NORTH VIETNAMESE ARMY) SAID FUCK YOU GUYS - WE DON'T WANT YOUR SHIT HERE. THE NVA was to be themeselves but the States always wants to know how you shit. We as CANADIANS must make our money tight eat right and motha fuckinparty allllll night!!

WE GOT IT DAMN GOOD HERE - STOP THE SYMPATHY!

STATES DON"T CARE ABOUT US - WE MAKE THEM MONEY