Deeps Posted July 17, 2008 Report Share Posted July 17, 2008 Link Opposition mounts to French ruling against Muslim womanLast Updated: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 | 11:47 PM ET Comments91Recommend50CBC News Islamic groups in France are criticizing a recent court decision to deny citizenship to a fully veiled Muslim woman deemed unable to assimilate into French society because of her faith.The ruling, delivered last month by France's highest administrative court, upheld immigration officials' refusal to grant citizenship to a woman, dubbed Faiza X in the court document, because of her religious beliefs. While the decision has solicited wide approval from politicians across France, others point to it as a sign of intolerance."Where does it begin or end; what we are calling radical behaviour?" asked Mohammed Bechari, president of the National Federation of French Muslims. "Will we see a man refused citizenship because of the length of his beard … or a man who is dressed as a rabbi, or a priest?"The Council of State's June 27 ruling made no mention of the woman's niqab, a veil worn by some Muslim women that covers the face with only a slit left open for the eyes, which she reportedly began wearing after moving to France from Morocco.A report from a French government commissioner submitted to the council said the woman told officials she was unaware of her right to vote, and would only remove her veil after men left the room."She lives in total submission to the men in her family ... and the idea of contesting this submission doesn't even occur to her," the government report said. Faiza X and her husband told immigration officials they were followers of Salafism, a form of the Islamic faith.The council ultimately ruled against Faiza X, saying that while its goal was not to attack the woman's religion, she had "adopted a radical practice of her religion incompatible with the essential values of the French community, notably with the principle of equality of the sexes, and therefore she does not fulfil the conditions of assimilation" listed in the country's Civil Code as a requirement for gaining French citizenship.An estimated five million of France's 63 million people are Muslim. In 2004, the country banned religious symbols in public schools, including Islamic headscarves.France's minister for urban affairs, Fadela Amara, has spoken in favour of the recent ruling in media reports. A daughter of Algerian parents, Amara condemned the niqab as a sign "of a totalitarian political project preaching inequality between the sexes," according to an interview published in the daily Le Parisien.In a letter written to immigration officials, Faiza X argued against such accusations, saying other French immigrants were able to maintain ties with their traditional cultures.Fouad Alaoui, vice-president of the Union of Islamic Organizations of France, said the ruling marks a turning point for France's judiciary."I don't think that clothing is part of this country's values. Clothing is personal freedom," he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Their ruling is entirely fair. Unfortunate but fair and just. Clothing is definitely an avenue of expression, and with the ever increasing islamophobia, it is an expression that does not lend itself to helping people tone down their ignorance.The Personal choice is hers. She can always choose to live somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 She didn't know of her right to vote. I know you're required by law in Canada to know the rights and responsibilities of a Canadian citizen in order to become one, i can only assume it's the same in France.Assimilation can be such an ugly word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I think the title of this thread is entirely misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 First sentence of the link is....Islamic groups in France are criticizing a recent court decision to deny citizenship to a fully veiled Muslim woman deemed unable to assimilate into French society because of her faith.You can see how I was mislead .... subject changed thanks. Though I do believe her clothing had a bearing on her denial of citizenship.I think the French government is totally justified in their decision. They are kind of known to be hard asses on this kind of stuff and the English speaking world gets in a tissy about their hard-line assimilation stance, but this comment from the article seemed to make sense.[she has] adopted a radical practice of her religion incompatible with the essential values of the French community, notably with the principle of equality of the sexes, and therefore she does not fulfil the conditions of assimilation" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I think the title of this thread is entirely misleading.Entirely? Take it easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 I think the title of this thread is entirely misleading. Entirely? Take it easy. I didn't think Birdy would be one for political correctness. Too bad you changed the title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted July 18, 2008 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 Original titleish ... can't exactly remember.Woman Denied Citizenship in France due to her muslim garb.No I wouldn't think that either Ollie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted July 18, 2008 Report Share Posted July 18, 2008 haha I think 'Woman denied citizenship in France due to not understanding what is required to be a citizen' would be more appropriate... or 'Woman denied citizenship in France due to not being able to fulfill what is required to be a citizen'... Anything else seems a little bit dramatic to me. Not that I'm drama free or anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted July 19, 2008 Report Share Posted July 19, 2008 (edited) Too much occularcentrism on the clothes not enough focus on the people's ideas... I think I agree with the judgement as others have said because she did not understand the rights and responsibilities of French citizenship. Edited July 19, 2008 by Guest to make more direct yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 I think her lack of awareness of her rights and responsibilites is directly related to her religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 was that supposed to be in purple? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdy Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 I think Hamilton's right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted July 20, 2008 Report Share Posted July 20, 2008 No, it wasn't supposed to be in purple. Voting isn't considered something women should be doing in the first place in many Muslim sects, and the notion of rights and responsibilities outside of the home (other than maybe the mosque) is probably pretty alien to her. It's not terribly surprising that she doesn't know about her right to vote. Obviously, not all Muslim groups are so rigid, but since she clearly belongs to one that requires her to wear a niqab I'm guessing that her group isn't one of the more liberal ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted July 21, 2008 Report Share Posted July 21, 2008 perhaps she's also wearing the veil to help mask the ugly body odour of the French. will immigrants who shower daily be refused citizenship as well because they cannot assimilate into French culture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 Lack of awareness and willful ignorance are different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted July 23, 2008 Report Share Posted July 23, 2008 gotta love french ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 What's ignorant about denying entrance to your party to somebody who wants you all to stop partying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradm Posted July 24, 2008 Report Share Posted July 24, 2008 (edited) What's ignorant about denying entrance to your party to somebody who wants you all to stop partying?I haven't read anything to suggest that she wants everybody to "stop partying." It's more she's being denied entry to the party because she doesn't know about the bean dip, or that partygoers will be playing charades later on. (I'm sure there are radical muslims in France who do object to women being allowed to vote, and who, given the chance, would change the law to prevent them from voting, but there's no indication this woman, or her husband, is one of them.)Aloha,Brad Edited July 24, 2008 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted July 28, 2008 Report Share Posted July 28, 2008 (edited) I'm surprised Brad. Read; Party - a group of people who travel together.It's more like denying her because she refuses to use a washroom. Edited July 28, 2008 by Guest In addition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phishtaper Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 metaphors aside, other than herself, who is she harming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted July 29, 2008 Report Share Posted July 29, 2008 I was just referring to how the french are ignorant of deodorant.sometimes a reason for fine perfume...sometimes a perfume all its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorgnor Posted July 30, 2008 Report Share Posted July 30, 2008 She's crapping on the legacy of suffragettes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaggyBalls Posted July 31, 2008 Report Share Posted July 31, 2008 Are you sure they're not just covering that crap up with more newspaper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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