Fighting in the NHL - Discussion

[Thorgnor]

Theo, football doesnt allow its players to carry a weapon. Biiiiiiiiiiiiig difference.

In football they suit up three hundred pound men with indestructible armour and a thick ass helmet... with the pace that these weapons run the 40 it's like getting hit by a Latta, nuf said.

I can agree with a comparison to LAX, there's much more in common between the two than hockey and football admittedly. However the history is totally different and the two sports are from two distinctly different cultural backgrounds, which I don't have to remind you of brother Esau.

(Miss you big buddy. )

But to go from that point, LAX was war.

Hockey is a sport, and was never anything but that. What happens when a guy charges the mound in baseball? Oh wait, that'd be standing up for yourself. Cheap shot... wanna fight about it?

Just being Avery...

I'm just sayin'

I played rugby.

I'm little.

I got crushed and got back up and fucking wailed on dudes more than twice my size, and the next time I played against them they kept their distance.

I'm no Leafs fan, but look at how Blake was playing for awhile there. He was crashing the net and scoring, but taking huge hits in the process. That's the sport. I made the football analogy because I was thinking would you rather catch the ball in the endzone and take a huge late hit and win the game? Or would you prefer to be able to drop the ball and beat the fuck out of the guy who's coming towards you because he said something about your sister's ass? I'm thinking touchdown... and then wait for him in the parking lot.

[badams]

Theo' date=' football doesnt allow its players to carry a weapon. Biiiiiiiiiiiiig difference.[/quote']

But to go from that point, LAX was war.

Hockey is a sport, and was never anything but that.

NO sport is war. Ask any Vet from any real war. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

[AD]

what is LAX besides an airport? I'm guessing lacrosse, is that right?

[Thorgnor]

NO sport is war. Ask any Vet from any real war. Comparing the two is ridiculous.

Unless I was talking about the fact that Native American Indians used Lacrosse as a way of defining the rules and actions of war before the arrival of whitey. To compare modern war with this type of combat is anachronistic, and was not my intention, very obviously. BTW, there's no one left to ask if there was any similarity... it stopped being a mode of war about 200 years ago.

To say that while playing a sport it's ok to loose your mind and treat the situation as if it were combat is fucking stupid and insulting to those who've actually been in combat and seen people loose it, imo.

Sorry, yeah, AD, LAX is lacrosse.

Edited January 29, 2009 by Guest

[Booche]

Georges Laraque vividly remembers the fight with Raitis Ivanans and admits it's a classic example of the ''staged'' fight NHLPA Executive Director Paul Kelly would like the NHL to get rid of.

Laraque called Kelly Thursday morning to throw his support behind the PA's fighting related safety initiatives, even though he understands rule changes may result in the extinction of the one-dimensional fighter.

Laraque recognizes he's part of the problem, but before he leaves the league, this outspoken enforcer wants to see change. He wants the NHL to implement new helmet regulations specific to fighting and flatly states, ''if you wear a visor you can't fight... period.''

Laraque says the league needs to make the wearing of helmets in fights mandatory.

''Every fight a guy ends up on the ground and risks hitting his head on the ice. It's simple. If the helmet comes off, or a player purposely takes it off, the ref should come in and stop the fight..It should be automatic…when the helmet comes off, the fight is over and if a guy throws a punch at a player without a helmet, he should get an extra penalty for that, too.''

Don Sanderson's death changed everything for Georges Laraque and because of that the 12 year NHL heavyweight believes the NHL has no choice.

''The whole world is watching because someone in our sport has died. The Ontario Hockey League made changes, so what examples are we providing? If we don't adjust, we're a bush league!''

Laraque refers to NHL enforcers as a ''brotherhood'' and understands less fighting may eliminate jobs and he is bracing for criticism from those who will say he's made a fortune from being the player he's suggesting needs to face restrictions.

But Laraque says, ''I want to protect and help the young players of the future.''

[Hal Johnson]

Now that is a classy dude. Seriously, good for Laraque.

[Booche]

Montreal Canadiens forward Georges Laraque is outraged by recommendations made by general managers participating in the annual NHL GM meetings in Naples, Florida.

"All of their recommendations are a joke!" Laraque charged after reading the NHL's plans on TSN.ca.

League managers are recommending the existing instigator penalty be called more frequently in an effort to curb fighting. In addition, the GMs will push for stiff punishment for those involved in what the NHL calls "staged fights" - fights that usually erupt immediately following face-offs.

It's that proposed penalty - a 10-minute misconduct - which really angers Laraque.

"Stupidest thing ever!" Laraque told TSN. "I think it's a joke. They might as well take fighting out of the NHL...fighting won't be safer; it will be eliminated because an added 10 minute misconduct is too much."

The referee will determine whether a fight qualifies as "staged", and Laraque insists this rule adjustment will eliminate jobs: "This will take the one-dimensional player out of the NHL because that's who they will say starts a staged fight."

Laraque says NHL enforcers, who are often used to try and change the momentum of a game, will be forced out.

"Why even bother showing up for training camp?," Laraque questioned.

Laraque says he has been told by NHLPA Executive Director Paul Kelly that he will be involved in a discussion panel on fighting to promote a safer environment.

"Bottom line, I don't agree with what they are recommending," Laraque said. "No one in that meeting does it (fights) for a living. Why am I not there, or Boogaard, or a player who this is directly going to impact?".

Kelly responded to Laraque's cutting comments by stating that it's his belief the recommendations made this week in Florida will have to clear through the CBA process before becoming reality.

"Coming out of the lockout, all matters relating to the game, including recommended fighting and hits to the head rules that were discussed at the GM meetings, must ultimately go through the joint NHLPA/NHL Competition Committee. The committee is responsible for making rule recommendations to the NHLPA's Executive Board and the NHL's Board of Governors. The Competition Committee will be meeting in June and our members will have further opportunity to provide their input to the NHLPA's Competition Committee members prior to this meeting,†Kelly told TSN.

NHL Deputy Commissioner Bill Daly says the league will observe protocol, but supports the manager's platform to make such recommendations.

"We have every intention of fully briefing the Competition Committee on today's deliberations and recommendations by the General Managers, and engaging the members in a thorough and wide-ranging discussion of the issues associated with those recommendations. But at the end of the day, we have existing rules in our Rulebook and the General Managers are fully authorized to provide guidance to our officiating staff as to how those rules have been and should be interpreted and enforced going forward," Daly told TSN.

Georges Laraque says he's aware his reaction to the recommendations is likely to upset league executives: "I'm aware of the criticism I will face for speaking up and being vocal. I'm trying to protect the other guys. I'm at the end of my career, for me it doesn't matter. I'm for safety, but not the elimination of fighting and these recommendations are leading to that."

Laraque said he is disappointed the GMs didn't focus more on helmet regulations and still believes the NHL needs to make wearing helmets in fights mandatory. In early February, Laraque told TSN.ca: "The whole world is watching because someone in our sport has died. The Ontario Hockey League made changes, so what examples are we providing? If we don't adjust, we're a bush league!"

[badams]

[color:blue]"This will take the one-dimensional player out of the NHL because that's who they will say starts a staged fight."

I have no problem with that.

[Jaimoe]

Not all staged fights are from one-dimensional players. Just off the top of my head, I've seen Daniel Briere, Chris Phillips and Ladislav Smid drop the gloves off of a faceoff.

Personally, I have no problem with getting rid of "staged fights", but I certainly didn't hate seeing Brashear getting knocked flat last night by Belak.

[Freak By Night]

Jaimoe, you should have qualified your statement by saying "I love pugilism and have been in my fair share of fisticuffs over the years".

[Jaimoe]

Jaimoe, you should have qualified your statement by saying "I love pugilism and have been in my fair share of fisticuffs over the years".

Is that you in there Davey Boy ?

[Booche]

Gary Bettman would be happy to sit down with Georges Laraque and talk about fighting.

The NHL commissioner thinks he might be able to convince the Montreal Canadiens tough guy that rule changes proposed by general managers this week aren't actually so bad for enforcers. Laraque was quick to criticize the recommendation by GMs that the instigator rule be more stringently applied next season and that a 10-minute misconduct penalty be given out to players who drop the gloves right after a faceoff.

Bettman was careful when asked to respond to the comments.

"I'd like to talk to George about it 1-on-1," he said Wednesday. "I think with an in-depth discussion, these rules aren't so far off the mark from things that he would be comfortable with."

After 16 years as commissioner, debates about fighting are nothing new for Bettman.

Laraque's biggest concern is that the proposed changes might end up eliminating the role he has filled for more than 600 NHL games over the last decade.

"The GMs need to find ways to make fighting safer instead of taking fighting out of the game," Laraque said Tuesday in Montreal. "With the instigator rule, you have more cheap shots in the game than ever. Having a 10-minute misconduct won't stop that. They should look at helmets or whatever to make it safer, not more penalties."

Fighting was the major issue tackled by the GMs over three days of meetings.

The final session was held Wednesday morning and included several housekeeping items. Deputy commissioner Bill Daly delivered a presentation about the financial state of the league, but didn't reveal anything new.

Essentially, the league still expects the US$56.7-million salary cap to remain fairly stable next season before dropping the following year. It remains to be seen how big of drop that might be.

"I think the biggest thing to 2010 to '11 is the uncertainty -- nobody knows," said Bettman.

That uncertainty kept at least one proposal from becoming an official recommendation.

Toronto Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke has been lobbying to allow teams to retain some salary in trades because he thinks the added flexibility will prompt more movement. The idea was more warmly received this time around than in the past.

"I think it's gathering support but at the same time it's a CBA issue," said Detroit Red Wings GM Ken Holland. "There's so much unknown here going forward given the cap. We're going to stay the course for the next little while.

"At the appropriate time, it will be re-addressed."

Burke indicated that Bettman killed the idea: "The Big Kahuna said it's not going to happen and that I should stop bringing it up."

Holland's proposal about tiebreaking rules didn't get very far. He would like to see regulation wins become the first tiebreaker in the standings to reward teams that take care of business before overtime.

Several other ideas were kicked around and debated as well.

"It's fun to watch the people that love the game like this talking about rule changes, the thought that goes into it," said Burke. "And when you're a rookie GM and you first come in you realize the passion these people have for the game."

There was a more relaxed atmosphere around these meetings than in years past.

Since the lockout, they've been held a week or so before the trade deadline and included a lot of buzz about potential moves. While the GMs are aware that they've lost some sizzle by moving the meetings to after the deadline, many believe it gave them a better opportunity to focus on rule changes.

"I like this much better," said Los Angeles Kings GM Dean Lombardi. "It's impossible to really focus on these issues when you're at the trade deadline."

Added Bettman: "We had some very good in-depth important discussions and I thought the focus was really good. I think part of that is because guys weren't out on their phones in the hallway as much as they were before the trading deadline."

Even with so much time to focus on tweaks to rules around fighting, there isn't a sense that the topic will stop being debated any time soon.

It's something the NHL will always be wrestling with to some degree.

"We're always trying to be self-analytical," said Bettman. "We're watching every game, we're looking at trends, we're trying to make sure that we have a sense of what's going on.

"Fighting has always been an emotional issue but in terms of any interaction that I've had with hockey executives, coaches, players, fans -- the overwhelming sentiment is that it's part of the game and there's no burning desire (to get rid of it)."