Vinyl in 2010 = Baseball Cards in 1988 ??

[Northern Wish]

I hear of a new vinyl 'collector' every day, there are so many new releases coming out, and seemingly every company is jumping on the bandwagon etc. that its starting to feel like collecting baseball cards in about 1988.

Thoughts?

[RobL]

vinyl has had it's up's and down's. over the years but it's always had that demand. i believe in the 80's it died because of the cd. But i think it's always had it's constant flow. I have always collected music but didn't start collecting vinyl until i was given a great record player a few years back. Which fell in great time with this plethora of vinyl that has been released lately. I think most artists are going for it because their cd sales are down so why not make money off vinyl.

[Blane]

so does that include old vinyl as well? i've got a heap of stuff, though parting with it at any price would be a bit depressing.

Mono edition london records version of "england's newest hitmakers" (stones) with original poster insert anyone?

Edited April 20, 2010 by Guest

[Esau.]

I've never really stopped buying vinyl, although I will admit to buying less then I did in the 80s and 90s. I still have 5 milk crates full. I just need a new turntable to play them, my marantz crapped out two years back.

A lot of newer artists are pressing their releases on vinyl it seems and many artists who were pressing them back in the day are revisiting it again as there seems to be more interest in them again. I personally chalk it up to the listener just getting tired of "digitally recorded" or "digitally remastered" releases that sound over produced, over compressed and lack a lot the intimacy there seemed to be in the past. That's my take on it anyway.

[Velvet]

I still have 5 milk crates full.

The milk crate industry tried to kill vinyl when they changed the standard milk create size.

[Esau.]

ha, yep. Your records (like 3 of them) could only fit diagonally, which just wouldn't work. I think I have some of those too. I know I had one in my van to store fluids, booster cables etc and the one in the work room that I store loose electrical parts (boxes, switches, plugs etc).

[Northern Wish]

I just hope for you collectors that vinyl holds it value better than my card collection.

I have about 10,000 cards total with a book value of approx. $60,000. If I had to sell them and could even find a buyer I would be lucky to see 1 cent on every dollar.

Of course there is also the inherent value of listening to the albums in 10 years- as opposed to looking at a card. But even then I hope the new New Pornographers release stacks up to the old back catalogs- as I have a stack of Kevin Maas and David Justice rookie cards that aren't worth shit when I should have been collecting real superstars isntead of the 'flavor of the week'.

[ollie]

I personally chalk it up to the listener just getting tired of "digitally recorded" or "digitally remastered" releases that sound over produced, over compressed and lack a lot the intimacy there seemed to be in the past. That's my take on it anyway.

I think for some that's definitely the case but are the majority of vinyl customers really that attenuated to the sound quality? If CDs were bad for compression then mp3s are a magnitude worse and I don't hear a lot of complaints about their ubiquity.

I think image certainly plays a part, retro-anything being very hip.

Me, I can't be bothered to flip sides. The covers are cool though.

[ollie]

The milk crate industry tried to kill vinyl when they changed the standard milk create size.

I have AD to thank for scoring me a few crates a couple of years back. If anyone has any album-sized milk crates lying around please let me know.

For all that I'm non-plussed about the return of vinyl, I've got a pretty large collection of old stuff.

[Northern Wish]

I agree wholeheartedly if anyone truely listens and can hear the differences- and has a system to support the medium (much like RobL's gorgeous looking and sounding Grundig cabinet)

BUT- has anyone had an "audiophile" vinyl collector friend who sings the praises of the depth of sound, but then you see his piece of shit Citizen turntable being played through some remnant mini stereo speakers? That really grinds my gears.

[Esau.]

I think for some that's definitely the case but are the majority of vinyl customers really that attenuated to the sound quality? If CDs were bad for compression then mp3s are a magnitude worse and I don't hear a lot of complaints about their ubiquity.

I think image certainly plays a part, retro-anything being very hip.

Me, I can't be bothered to flip sides. The covers are cool though.

I imagine some are that attenuated to the sound quality, others have stereo gear that allows for those differences to be heard and some folks just like them for the retro and/or to be "hip", as you said.

I know I can certainly hear a difference between my original Blonde on Blonde vinyl vs. the digitally remastered CD version and my stereo isn't all that high-end. I throw on my headphones and its even more noticeable. Al Kooper's organ comes to mind.

As for mp3s, anytime a recording is compressed it drops in quality. I always compare it to the days of cassettes, there was a reason people wanted a copy of a show or album from the source recording. Loads of people complain about mp3s, tons of websites don't allow them, hell, I remember when they were frowned upon here when people wanted live shows. Now-a-days perhaps not so much but I figure that's due to portable mp3 players being more readily available and popular. Personally, I don't hate mp3s, but since I don't own an ipod (or anything like one) I really only settle for them when I can't find a lossless version.

To each their own though.

Edited April 20, 2010 by Guest
Corrected my mix up of Mike Bloomfield & Al Kooper

[Davey Boy 2.0]

ppffftttt... Bloomfield...some 'fan' you are, dude

[phishtaper]

why 1988? haven't baseball cards been around much longer? im weeding thru work data right now and my head is clogged so my thots here will be muddled, but ...

I understand your point here, NW, but I don't think baseball cards and records are comparable. there are two dimensions: collectibility and market economics.

on collectibility, sure, people buy and collect cards, albums, comics, shoes, dogs and all sorts of things. personal taste dictates.

but on market economics, I dont think cards and albums are at all equal. I don't collect cards but presumably, there have been no dramatic paradigm shifts like there have been with recording media. kids still buy them cheap in packs along with gum. its a bit of a lottery, you buy the pack and you may luck into a valuable card. sure, older rare cards fetch big money in secondary markets. but one would only pay a premium in those secondary markets, not at initial purchase.

It's not the same with albums. Generally they are pricey to start with whether they are rare or not. Yes, some do appreciate in value a lot ... but I would guess that most "valuable" albums were manufactured 20 years ago or more, not today. But even if one does buy a limited edition album today, they know the price of it now. so they buy it as an investment or an extravagance.

nobody would spend $20 for a crappy card. but people will spend $20 for a crappy album ... because they like it, and will use it. nobody "uses" crappy cards but people use crappy albums all the time.

that you have chosen 1988 as a benchmark suggests that perhaps what you are seeing as commodity comparability has more to do with your own, personal, time-stamped voyages thru both cards and albums and not the wider, more general markets over a much longer time period.

or, was there a resurgence of card collecting in 1988? i dont know.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

...I'll mail you my 18 yr old cassette of Blonde on Blonde that sat on the dsahboard of my old car for 6 months so you can appreciate that organ a bit more, Greg

[Esau.]

ppffftttt... Bloomfield...some 'fan' you are, dude

bah - I always mix those guys up, doesn't matter what album they are on.

...I'll mail you my 18 yr old cassette of Blonde on Blonde that sat on the dsahboard of my old car for 6 months so you can appreciate that organ a bit more, Greg

Send it. I'll make a hat.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

a pirate hat, I hope

[Northern Wish]

why 1988? haven't baseball cards been around much longer? im weeding thru work data right now and my head is clogged so my thots here will be muddled, but ...

I understand your point here, NW, but I don't think baseball cards and records are comparable. there are two dimensions: collectibility and market economics.

on collectibility, sure, people buy and collect cards, albums, comics, shoes, dogs and all sorts of things. personal taste dictates.

but on market economics, I dont think cards and albums are at all equal. I don't collect cards but presumably, there have been no dramatic paradigm shifts like there have been with recording media. kids still buy them cheap in packs along with gum. its a bit of a lottery, you buy the pack and you may luck into a valuable card. sure, older rare cards fetch big money in secondary markets. but one would only pay a premium in those secondary markets, not at initial purchase.

It's not the same with albums. Generally they are pricey to start with whether they are rare or not. Yes, some do appreciate in value a lot ... but I would guess that most "valuable" albums were manufactured 20 years ago or more, not today. But even if one does buy a limited edition album today, they know the price of it now. so they buy it as an investment or an extravagance.

nobody would spend $20 for a crappy card. but people will spend $20 for a crappy album ... because they like it, and will use it. nobody "uses" crappy cards but people use crappy albums all the time.

that you have chosen 1988 as a benchmark suggests that perhaps what you are seeing as commodity comparability has more to do with your own, personal, time-stamped voyages thru both cards and albums and not the wider, more general markets over a much longer time period.

or, was there a resurgence of card collecting in 1988? i dont know.

There is so much there, but I am busy as hell too- but the basic part is that in 1988 there were 3 baseball card companies and by 1991 there were at least 6. Each company was putting out several editions per year, with special cards, rated rookies, highlights, HoFamers etc.

The whole business exploded so quickly that market saturation happened in the blink of an eye- by 1994 the market was totally flooded, the bottom had dropped out on prices and hundreds of millions of cards were put into storage.

Someone would spend $20 on a crappy card, if it completed a collection, was a fav player or otherwise.

In 1989 a new company named Upper Deck changed the landscape forever with special editions, autographed cards inserted as contests, offering full boxes of cards instead of just packs at all retailers, holograms on the cards, end of year "update" sets etc. There was no gum and the packs were thick foil to enhance the "collectible" feeling.

Prior to that year it was a standard set of cards, bought in packs at stores, yes with gum in the pack.

[Weirdness]

There isn't much that's worth collecting for it's monetary value in my experience. Pollock posters would be an obvious exception that I could think of but generally speaking you won't get any more out than you put in.

As a result, collecting for the sheer enjoyment of something that you are interested in is where the "value" aspect comes in.

Vinyl has certainly become trendy as of late and it seems to be a good marketing tool for bands and so forth but buying a record for anything other than listening purposes doesn't make a lot of sense.

[jonyak]

I don't collect vinyl because of its "worth" I collect it because I enjoy listening to it.

I have been collecting for a good 15+ years.

[Northern Wish]

Going to the top of this thread, my post wasn't about what the collections were worth- more that I was sensing vinyl on its path to a tipping point. The comparison was drawn from my own personal experience when cards (in my life) reached and went beyond that point....

My second post when I mentioned worth was more pointing out my follies of the past, when as a youth I chased profit instead of quality.

I did recognize the value of just having the music, but am always intrigued by forces of the market of collectibles.

[Weirdness]

The answer is no. Still lots of steam building on the Analog revival. If in time, digital hard copies(CD's etc) disappear then vinyl could be even more popular than it is today.

I doubt that it will continue to peak like it did prior to the invention of the cassette and CD but I doubt that you will see the same decline that you did when those new formats first came out.

[boiler]

I've been putting it off for a while due to tons of other commitments. I've just put together a relativley inexpensive hi-fi system. (Onkyo- TK 2500, dual 502 turn table and epos m12 speakers). I haven't had a record "collection" in a very long time. I remember hawking off some real gems back in the day, stuff I would kill to have again. So I've been buying records lately, I have about 50 now and it's increasing fast. I also hook the ipod up to the receiver. The difference is highly noticable. It's not even in the same ball park. I picked up a real nice copy of Pink Floyd's meddle today. I heard things listening to that tonight that I never even knew existed.

As far as image goes, it looks awesome, not gonna lie to you, but I live out in the country so not too many people come out to "look" at it. I mostly listen to it in my basement, alone, with my eyes closed.

I used to have a sizeable card and comic book collection and in fact owned a card and comic store. I got rid of it all, except a few nice ones. I just didn't see the value in them any more, other than for nostalgia or something. I really would never be able to "use" 80,000 cards for much of anything, same with the 12,000 comics, although perhaps they had better use than the cards. Sure the value of some cards will always be high but for the most part, 99.9% of the cards you buy are worth about $0.01.

Records however, can be played and will always have value just because of that. Another example I also got Springsteen Born to Run in the $1.00 bin. The guy actually never charged me anything for it. The cover is worn but the record is in vg+ shape. No card can give me as much pleasure as listening to Thunder Road on vinyl.

Edited August 10, 2010 by Guest