secondtube Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 quote: but the 'boys had a good turn-out considering THERE WAS NO DICKIE BETTS. i think that was the reason for the good turnout....derek trucks... dicky had to cancel his ontario gig cause of poor ticket sales... best allman show i've ever seen, and most peoples fav show was 2000 when the mule where in town.... huge jam session, and no dickie....thats what made it good. it was free. not boring.... wouldn't have happened if dickie was still in the band... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon. Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 yup...i'd have to say that Derek Trucks totally obliterated me!! i will go see him whenever i get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 i'm sorry, it was the best allman show i've ever seen, and most people i talked to (i guess cept for you) unanimously agree it was one of the best as well...Kevo, i've heard Downey say this was the best show he's ever attended... and the reason is because warren showed up with his band....12 guys jamming on stage. many people i talked to before the show where too cool to go because dicky wasn't playing... its funny, i enjoy Derek Trucks WAY WAY WAY WAY x1000 more than Dicky.... Obviously i'm not the only one, as i said, dicky show failed miserably in Ontario. Derek Trucks still sells enough tickets to come up here... The allmans knew they were sinking in a downward spiral with Dicky, so they replaced him. People cried the blues. Said boycotte the show...well i didn't, and neither did about four thousand others who got their asses blown out of the water by the new allmans.... It was the best i'd ever heard them post Duane. I have lots of older allman shows, but i'm sure they dont count, as i wasn't there. Me, i'm just thankful he wasn't at the show i attended, because he wouldn't have had four extra members get up on that stage, not the stage he led. That is all...i'm about to crack the Allman Encyclopedia so mabye i'll be more prepared for the next attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 well brian, the approach bobby takes with Ratdog is much different than the Dead. The Dead, i believe, try to recreate the Grateful Dead, whereas Ratdog takes the Grateful Dead songs to a different level. Not a better, nor a worse level, just different. Mark Karan is far from Jerry. Far Far Far. But the sax player in the band is second to none. The sax adds textures to songs making them even more enjoyable. Once again, nothing insane, but for example, Big River. This past Ratdog show, it was played like a lounge song, laid back and smooth. Definitely a different direction than the dead took it. I think Ratdog is a creative tool for Bobby, allowing him to play some of the old songs the way he wanted them to be played, instead of the way they turned out with the Grateful Dead. This doesn't make them better, just different. A different approach to things. I think this attitude is also reflected by the light show, or lack of it. As trevor said, it was pretty basic. I dont think an intense, kurodaesque light show would be appropriate. That would definitely distract from the band, and ruin the quote: ...[feeling] just like a bunch of us freaks rented out Massey Hall and got Weir to play....real intimate... Hope i made things a little clearer Brian...if not, it was a fun ramble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 The Other Ones, The Dead, Ratdog, Phil & Friends..... puh-lease! The 30 years these guys spent making musical magic to my utter delight doesn't give them a free pass for the rest of their lives to pander to their audiences and become a nostalgia act, playing boring jams mainly for kids too young to have seen the real thing or older heads who have a legitmate attachment. There is so much vibrant, exciting music being produced out there for me to bother with Bobby singing Jerry Garcia Band tunes (what.... the fu*k.... is up.... with that???). You wanna hear "The Dead" mangle their way through "Reuben and Cerise" or squeeze all the juice out of "Peggy-O", you wanna hear Mickey "rap" his way through "Fire On The Mountain" (God help us all) or listen to Jimmy Herring fight for space through a sea of noodling, be my guest. I just have to imagine that the silver lining in that experience is the connection with the people and the community - a noble goal to be sure but I can't help but be depressed when I hear the music, which kind of negates the experience. Plus, I think there's more of a business bottom-line at play than a lot of people would care to admit. Bob Weir & RatDog celebrating the Grateful Dead and the life and music of Jerry Garcia (they played together for 30 years, you know!) = $60 @ Massey Hall. Bob Weir & Ratdog performing the music of Bob Weir and Ratdog = $20 @ The Opera House. It's true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Welcome to my last week, MarcO............... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 You didn't answer any of my questions Tube. This summer's Allman's show doesn't even rank in my Top 3 shows of 2003. Look, I know you are a lot younger than me so you wouldn't necessarily have a point of comparison between line-ups, but this incarnation is more or less an Allman tribute band. I realize Dickey's playing has diminished over the last few years ( mainly due to his substance abuse problems ), but you seem not to get that he has 30 years of quality playing behind him. Most importantly, Betts has never been a successful solo artist in terms of sales. His solo music is just too country for Allmans fans and too rock for country fans. Sure Dickey's show was cancelled due to poor ticket sales, but I guarantee that the Greg Allman Band would have trouble selling tickets in Canada too. Compare his solo album sales to ABB record sales. There is no comparison. Hell, when most great artists from great bands decide to go solo, either for a tour and/or for an album, they rarely draw/sell like they do when they are in their regular bands - see: Chris Robinson, Mick Jagger, Derek Trucks, Warren Haynes, Phil Lesh, Ringo Starr, Jack Bruce, Steve Winwood etc... I'm glad that you liked that last Toronto Allmans show so much. I liked it, but there was something HUGE missing. I've been disappointed by Dickey's decline in recent years but I was far more disappointed by his dismissal from the ABB. His songs should be sang by him and his guitar solos will never be done better by other musicians no matter who they may be. They won't have his soul or imagination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 the show i'm referring to is 2000, the first tour without dickey. i haven't seen them since. my whole point was, they would not have played so good if dickey was still in the band, because, dicky wouldn't have had four people join him for the second set... i believe the band is doing just fine without him. not sure what the questions even were on that rant. i haven't seen dickey with the allmans. sure i love some of his originals...the four disc allmans set i have has some interesting stuff of his went he first joined... am i a betts fan? not really. "Don't you find it strange when Warren Haynes parrots Dickey's guitar style and tone on Hittin' The Note and in concert? I do." not really, as i dont find warren to be the most original artist on the scene. "The Allman Brothers without Dickey Betts? Please. I recommend that you find some Dickey Betts-ABB downloads, bootlegs or CDs from the 1989-2000 period and tell me that that band isn't as good as today's Allman Brothers. Hell, even the Chuck Leavell-included Allmans is better than today's Allmans." As i said, i enjoy the Allmans just fine without dickey. I'm sorry you dont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Jaimoe: To me, the second best incarnation of the Allman Brothers ever was the Greg, Dickey, Butch Trucks, Jaimoe, Marc Quinones, Warren Haynes and Allen Woody band of 1989-1997. That 'new' Allman Brothers Band creatively gelled which we hadn't seen since the early 70s. That ABB also had a legitimate connection with the past, but focused on bringing new music and a new vigor to the present.Well, I'm not going to get into the debate about the show the other night - obviously, I wasn't there, and so have no input or opinion. But I have seen several different incarnations of ABB, and I'd have to say that I definitely agree with the opinion stated above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted November 3, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 I never saw the old Allmans, just this new incarnation. And I have to say, I think it's one of the best things going these days. For me, the Allmans right now are kicking some serious ass, and playing like the Dead circa '77. Seeing the Allmans this summer really was one of my music highlights for the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 quote:Originally posted by secondtube: As i said, i enjoy the Allmans just fine without dickey. I'm sorry you dont. I do enjoy this ABB without Dickey, however it's not the real ABB. I just think this incarnation of the ABB needs a few more good albums under their belt ( like the excellent Hittin' The Note ) before they can find a niche next to the ABBs of the past. This can never be the REAL ABB without Dickey, as The Who isn't The Who without The Ox and Moon. Dickey was there from the beginning and was instrumental in deleveloping and inventing their sound - twin lead guitar harmonies with jazz/soul/rock and blues improvised jams. Some of the best latter-day ABB tunes ( just like the songs from their prime ) were penned or co-penned by Dickey: Seven Turns, Back Where It All Begins, No One To Run With, Nobody Knows, Kind Of Bird, Low Down Dirty Mean, Good Clean Fun etc... The best ABB show that I've ever seen was in 1996 at the Molson Amphitheatre with Jack Pearson on guitar ( with Betts ). At that time, the ABB were re-tooling after Haynes and Woody's departure and they put on a killer show in Toronto. The 1990 New York State Fairground show was one of my fav concerts ever. Haynes and Betts really brought it that night. Booche will attest. Note: I've seen Betts kick Warren's ass all over the stage too. He did it in 1991 at Maple Leaf Gardens and he did it again in 1994 in Toronto. I love Warren and he's tough to better on most nights, but his best foil was Betts. Warren wouldn't argue either. Also, Betts is as good as Haynes on the slide, he just doesn't play electric slide much any more. You can't argue that the crowd was there this summer to see Trucks and Haynes because you don't have a point of reference - only the 2000 show. Older fans ( the ABB fans from the 70s ) that sat around me at this summer's show kept asking me who was playing guitar and " Where's Dickey ". The younger jam fans know the line-up, but I'll bet the old casual fans do not. Remember that they were hugely commercial in the 70's; one of the biggest bands of the 70's. I gurantee you that the casual Allmans fan doesn't even know who Trucks is... Derek Trucks that is. He is not a legend. Betts is. Trucks will be one in time. I love that kid. He's a revolutionary slide-guitarist. The Derek Trucks Band can draw 1000-1500 into a club no problem. Gov't Mule maybe 1000-2000. Even if you combine Gov't Mule and the DTB you won't draw 4000 on most if any nights. All-in-all this Allmans band is good. This is the only line-up I can handle without Betts. I'm looking forward to seeing my favourite band again and let's hope their next album is as good as their last. P.S. Dickey Betts' last album was good too. Some great instrumental jams, but he still needs to find his solo voice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swifty Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 Dickey and Great Southern played dates in Windsor and London this summer. Which cancellation are you referring to??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 quote: Originally posted by Swifty: Dickey and Great Southern played dates in Windsor and London this summer. Which cancellation are you referring to??? If Tune needs proof, and I think he does, check out Studog's excellent pictures from the Jambands.ca Featured Photographer section of the Dickey Betts Band's gig from Windsor this summer: http://www.jambands.ca/DesktopDefault.aspx?&tabid=47&path=Studog/Dickie%20Betts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted November 3, 2003 Report Share Posted November 3, 2003 i wasn't referring to the London cancellation.... lemme go find my refund slip. (i had tickets to it...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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