CyberHippie Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Don't get me wrong, I loved the show. But... Here goes... I'm must looking over the photos I took last night and I noticed something... They aren't really that particularly interesting. Sure there are some nice shots, and at some point I'm gonna post some of them on my website. But, really, they are aren't all that interesting, other the fact that someone in the shot has been inventing and reinventing a whole genre of music, a legend. So, that basicaly reminded me of the show. And, that the show wasn't particuarly visually interesting. I can't say that I've ever seen much of a light show at Massey Hall, so I don't know if it's the venue or the band. But I really would have enjoyed the show that much more if there had been some great lights, or trippy background or whatever. I know some people are probably thinking, "but you go there for the music, to listen." I think I'm a bit wierd differently and I get different things out of music. But I don't play an instrument so I'm not really paying attention to guitar play, I also for some reason don't pick up on lyrics I'm more listening to the music. So what can I say, I really like something to watch while I'm listening to music, for me there is nothing better than experiencing music with trippy soynchronized visuals. Anyway I had kinda been thinking there might be some kinda cool light show for what amounts to a modern day Dead show. But maybe that's not what Rat Dog shows are about. What do ya'll think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted October 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 felt like I was in somebody's living room, which I really enjoyed... hangin out with Bob Wier could've been some lights I guess but I never worried about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted October 31, 2003 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Yeah it was definetly an intimate atmosphere. Is that Rat Dog, the venue, or both? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secondtube Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 the band... oysterhead had kuroda on lights (i'm pretty sure) bob i guess isn't one for the light show... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoMack Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Lights don't make any difference to me... I usually end up closing my eyes anyways... Plus there were a few cats near me that were smiling so big it was like a beam of light... But here's my beef. TORONTO SUCKS. People just don't get down in Toronto. Toronto is too cool. Too many folks that are there so they can say there were, instead of for the right reasons. But ahh well I guess... didn't slow me down any... Bobby rocked Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 bit of each I think the band looked comfortable with their beers and drinks on stage security was pretty chill... I love when a few thousand heads start dancin out of control and security eventually figures out its best just to let them be and bend the rules for a night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 ...at one point it felt just like a bunch of us freaks rented out Massey Hall and got Weir to play....if that's what we had've done, I don't think it would've been much different...real intimate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super Freak Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 It's hard to play Toronto, it's like New York. If you can make it there...you know the drill. I found that people don't clap unless the whole place is into it. It's make it or break it so to speak. If you can pull a following in TO then you're doing something right. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Booche Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 "...at one point it felt just like a bunch of us freaks rented out Massey Hall and got Weir to play....if that's what we had've done, I don't think it would've been much different...real intimate..." That's cool Hux, really cool. Chippie, I have seen the same thing with Ratdog, but lights dont necessarily bother me. If you are into that sort of thing, I can totally understand. I would prefer to see a good light show, but if not, its guaranteed my eyes are closed (unless the band is Rush-ing, then they cant seem to keep my attention and I have to look at something/anything.) As for 'The Dead's' light show, its weak now compared to what it was, but it is still cooler than most every band. I dont think they bring the whole gear with them, but at Vernon, they utilized what they had and fired them into the foggy skies to provide a 'northernlights' experience. It was rather spectacular. Best light shows I have seen (in no particular order): Phish, Gorge 98 (Huge props to Gotta Jiboo in Rochester 99, one of the coolest light shows I have seen for one tune. Maybe the coolest. I was the DD that night, and internally thanked Kuroda for making that show. Dying to see a post-hiatus show, based on the pics I have seen.) Dead, everyone of them from 90-95 (Buckeye Lake 94 and the Standing On The Moon has STRONG visuals ingrained in my head) Radiohead, this past summer in Montreal (I didnt get it at the time, but they stayed with me. VERY simplistic but working with the music.) There have been numerous shows I have seen that the lights seemed contrived. They didnt 'play' with the music. I would prefer little lights to that scenario. (If you think I am babbling, I am. What the fuck was I talking about ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guigsy Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 cyberhippie....as someone who does a lot of band photography, i think you'll often find that your pictures are often more "boring" than what you experienced, because its very hard to capture a "feeling" in an image...when it happens, its great, and you'll know it, but with bands, its extremely difficult, because "feelings" and "visuals" are often two different things, altho, when under the right influence, they're one in the same........but, with cameras, its hard to capture that extreme moment when everything was beautiful, because, those beautiful moments often include movement, and a series of many frames/second, and lets face it, in a photo, a moment in time, its really only one frame for that one moment, and your brain cant process it, because its not what you had seen, or felt, at that time.....images dont often do a show justice.....and that takes nothing away from the show, or the image, or the feeling, or the experience from when it occured....its just different mediums...... i hope i didnt miss the point here, or i'll probably sound like a real ass....but i was responding to how you felt about your images representing how you felt about the show, or how you felt while you were at the show.... im sure it was great, and im sure your pictures were, too...........i love bobby, wish i was there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jon. Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 I am a musician and am very interested in what the band is doing on stage, but, a great light show is the shit!! i had forgotten how much i like great lights until i went to Vegas for the 2/15, 2/16 Phish shows this year....WOW...that was probably the most intense light show i have seen fo a looooong time. I believe that the audio and visual experience are closely linked and one can certainly enhance the other!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ike Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 This may be a dumb question, but was Ratdog always a Grateful Dead cover band? Enough with the nostalgia already. Bobby please write some new songs. That's my beef with the Ratdog show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Hey Cyberhipppie, you need a pair of Trippy glasses. Andre and Barrett used to have some really awesome ones - made you look like Geordie Laforge - that we would pass around at dead shows (like 3/22/95) and any lights that you look at were cool. These aren't them, but they look fun! http://www.rainbowsymphonystore.com/digrgl.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bouche Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 wait, I'm finding more! Trippy glasses are actually called Diffraction Glasses. http://au.store.yahoo.com/raverswarehouse/difglas.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drawbar Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 I think you need to open your ears. maybe even close your eyes. I think many bands focus to much on image and we are getting used to that. People are spending more time looking at the lights or the big screen with the light show behind the band when what really counts is the music. Bob and the boys just play good old tunes. It should fill your soul and not your sight. Also, Massey hall is a sight in itself. What an awesome venue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boogieknight Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 I'm with MoMack. Toronto is one of the lamest places to see any show. 'Can you pleassse sit down' seems to be the favorite tune of alot of Toronto folks. Now I know I ain't talkin about anyone here, cuase if you love music then you love to rock out,but man Toronto is so lame when it comes to live show energy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 31, 2003 Report Share Posted October 31, 2003 Mmmmmmm..... beef! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 quote:Originally posted by boogieknight: I'm with MoMack. Toronto is one of the lamest places to see any show. 'Can you pleassse sit down' seems to be the favorite tune of alot of Toronto folks. Now I know I ain't talkin about anyone here, cuase if you love music then you love to rock out,but man Toronto is so lame when it comes to live show energy. Although I agree to some extent with your Toronto crowd observations ( I agree that Toronto crowds are too reserved at times ), I also think you both ignorantly paint all Toronto crowds with the same brush. I have been to hundreds of Toronto shows over the past 12 years and I've found crowds to be generally hit-or-miss ( like most towns ). For example, Dave Matthews had a great crowd this summer and so to did Ben Harper: both acts played to a Sold-Out Molson Amphitheatre. The Allman Brothers crowd, also at the Amphitheatre, may have remained seated during some parts of their concert this summer, but the 'boys had a good turn-out considering THERE WAS NO DICKIE BETTS. Phish always seems to bring the crowd to their feet at the Molson Amphitheatre. The Jeff Beck and B.B. King show had a very loud and enthusiastic crowd this summer too. I've seen bands like Burt Neilson, nero and Jimmy Swift play to very enthusiastic bar crowds. The recent Gov't Mule show at the Danforth Music Hall kicked, thanks in great part to a responsive and vocal crowd. My Concert Of The Year 2003 is The Soundtrack Of Our Lives at the Opera House last February. The crowd was crazy for 2-plus hours and demanded the best from TSOOL - and that's what we got. Punk crowds in Toronto are also great. The Mighty Mighty Boss Tones always play to good crowds; so to do the Pistols, Teenage Head, The International Noise Conspiracy and Forgotten Rebels. Maybe Toronto hockey, jam and jazz crowds seem to be a little lame at times, but to call ALL Toronto crowds " lame " is just plain stupid and short-sighted. I'd be surprised if these future shows in T.O. will have lame crowds: Ween, The White Stripes, Primus, .Moe with nero. I'll be at all but Primus and I know the bands and their crowds won't disappoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paisley Posted November 1, 2003 Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 quote:Originally posted by ike: This may be a dumb question, but was Ratdog always a Grateful Dead cover band? Enough with the nostalgia already. Bobby please write some new songs. That's my beef with the Ratdog show. as it was my first Ratdog show I didn't mind (in fact enjoyed) all the Dead covers... but yeah, agreed, be nice to hear some more Bobby/Ratdog songs as for Toronto crowds, they've improved pretty drastically... 12 years ago we'd go see UIC/The Gruesomes at the Rivoli and me and my bud would be up dancing first song, the rest of the room would be leaning(posing) up against the sides of the room with a Black Label in hand(not being drunk) in their black clothes... I used to dance up to them with my eyes crossed making wild arm movements to try and elicit any kind of reaction out of them... things are definately better than those days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted November 1, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2003 Yeah I actually spent a lot of time with my eyes closed. I didn't realize so many others did that as well. I picture someone saying, "hey he's got his eyes shut, he's missing everything" Bouche - Sweet glasses!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyberHippie Posted November 2, 2003 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 A couple of points - I don't really think Rat Dog is a dead cover band for the simple fact that Bobby has a right to grateful dead's music, he helped create it, revise it, keep it alive. As far as Derek Trucks goes, he's awsome. So talented as well as huble. I've seen a few Derek Trucks shows at the cozone, they were real good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaimoe Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by secondtube: quote: but the 'boys had a good turn-out considering THERE WAS NO DICKEY BETTS. i think that was the reason for the good turnout....derek trucks... dicky had to cancel his ontario gig cause of poor ticket sales... best allman show i've ever seen, and most peoples fav show was 2000 when the mule where in town.... huge jam session, and no dickie....thats what made it good. it was free. not boring.... wouldn't have happened if dickie was still in the band... I don't understand where you are coming from and I find your above comments regarding Betts vs.Trucks offensive. I think that the ABB's decision to fire Betts was justified back in 2000, ( listen to his less-that-stellar chops on some tunes from the Peakin At The Beacon CD ) but to discount and discredit his influences to rock & roll over the past 3 decades is myopic and to some extent blatantly ignorant. Whether you like it or not, take this statement as fact: Betts is as important to the Allman Brothers success and legacy as is Greg Allman. Greg may be the soul but Dickey was the heart of the Allman Brothers Band since Duane's death. The ABB's leader since original leader Duane Allman's death in Oct. 29, 1971 to 2000 was Dickey Betts. To not know the music and dynamic make-up of the Allman Brothers is to not know the Allman Brothers. Period. Self-assuredly predicting that there wouldn't be any inspired jams " if Dickey was still in the band " is downright asinine. I must ask: You said that this was " the best Allman show ( you've ) ever seen ". Maybe it was for you, but I know that it was ONLY a good Allman Brothers show. This leads me to the question: How many Dickey Betts-led Allman Brothers shows have you attended? None? Probably. I've been to lots. All were better than this summer's Toronto show. Do you like any of the great songs that he's contributed to the Allmans over the past 32 years? He's written some of the best ABB tunes. No argument. Do you even consider Betts a guitar and rock & roll innovator? He is still a great guitarist and I still hope that he gets help for his substance abuse problems. It's damaged his playing and relationships... obviously. Are you even a Betts fan? I doubt it. Don't you find it strange when Warren Haynes parrots Dickey's guitar style and tone on Hittin' The Note and in concert? I do. I think it's somewhat wrong. However, it's not Warren's fault. If this incarnation doesn't acknowledge Betts' past contributions then they are playing us for fools. There is no fucking way Elizabeth Reed, Jessica, Blue Sky, Revival, Southbound, Back Where It All Begins etc.. sound better without Dickey. When this post 2000 incarnation of the Allmans plays Dickey songs ( like Revival at last summer's Toronto show ) it feels like they are doing a Betts cover tune by the Greg Allman Band. Call the Allmans without Betts: Allman Light or Greg Allman & Friends. I like Haynes and Trucks a great deal and both are legitimate 2nd and 3rd generation Allman Brothers band members respectively, but they can never replace the inspiring guitar innovation of Duane and Dickey; they can only pay homage to it - and they've been doing a nice job of it too ( especially on the Hittin' The Note CD ). However, both Trucks and Haynes are better in almost every musical way when they are leaders of their own bands, but they'll never have that freedom of musical expression while doing time in the Allman Brothers. There is too much of a legacy for them to uphold, maintain and revere. Phil Lesh is on record as saying that Jerry Garcia's playing was in a slow but obvious decline from 1991 on. Would the Dead have been better off without him? Maybe Bobby, Phil, Mickey and Bill should have fired Jerry and replaced him with Steve Kimock or Jimmy Herring? Why not? Using your philosophy, this would have created better jams. I really love the post 1977 one original member-led Lynyrd Skynyrd. Their jams are way better than the Skynard that consisted of the late Steve Gaines, Allen Collins, Leon Wilkinson, Ed King, Ronnie Van Zant etc... I'd like to thank Dickey Betts for bringing Warren Haynes into the ABB fold in 1989 - back then, Warren was a member of the DBB. To me, the second best incarnation of the Allman Brothers ever was the Greg, Dickey, Butch Trucks, Jaimoe, Marc Quinones, Warren Haynes and Allen Woody band of 1989-1997. That ' new ' Allman Brothers Band creatively gelled which we hadn't seen since the early 70s. That ABB also had a legitimate connection with the past, but focused on bringing new music and a new vigor to the present. Without Betts, the guitar connection to their past, which is vital to the Allmans' sound is lost. The Allman Brothers without Dickey Betts? Please. I recommend that you find some Dickey Betts-ABB downloads, bootlegs or CDs from the 1989-2000 period and tell me that that band isn't as good as today's Allman Brothers. Hell, even the Chuck Leavell-included Allmans is better than today's Allmans. Do some musical homework and come back and talk to me when you are ready. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamilton Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 quote:Originally posted by Weirdness: What I am saying is, if Ratdog are a Dead cover band, than The Dead are a Dead Cover Band, than Phil and Friends are (mostly) a Dead Cover Band.They are. All of them. More talented than the average cover bands, naturally, but cover bands nonetheless. What I know is that when Ratdog first started doing their thing, it was a vehicle for Bobby to do things outside of the GD fold - something different. Sure, there were always two or three of Bobby's GD tunes in each show, but that was it. Since Jerry's death, the shows have been far more GD song oriented. I might understand this if there was no Other Ones/"The Dead"/Whatever to perform this material, but there is, and Bobby *is* a member of them. So, why not return to making Ratdog what it used to be - an alternative to your day job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weirdness Posted November 2, 2003 Report Share Posted November 2, 2003 VERY surprised to hear that there are so many people who would be content to see Bobby do the Bobby thing for two full sets. Believe me, if he did this, there would be a far longer bitch thread than this. Far as "nostalgia" goes, it's a pretty tough thing to get around if you're going to go and see most Dead related gigs these days. What I am saying is, if Ratdog are a Dead cover band, than The Dead are a Dead Cover Band, than Phil and Friends are(mostly) a Dead Cover Band. It's not for alot of people, and they tend to stay at home. Ratdog shows that are more new than old are not particularly well recieved. The other thing to consider here, is that the best thing about all of these "Dead cover bands" in the past couple of years is that they are busting out the oldschool shit, the REALLY good stuff from the earlier years that was not payed attention to since the early days. It's AMAZING to get a chance to hear a Born Cross Eyed, New Potato Caboose, St. Stephen, Unbroken Chain, Weather Report Suite, Help>Slip!>Franklins, China Doll, Reuben & Cherise............ They don't always pull it off, but you've gotta give them credit when they do! Anyhow, I love Bobby more than anyone and his songwriting abilities are great too(often with a little help from one of his friends), but he is no Robert Hunter and obviously Jerry wrote some pretty fine music in his day. The entire spirit of the Dead is all about rejoycing in ALL of the wonderful music that has been created over the past almost 40 years. Imposing limitations on this idea would be seriously against the whole concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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