Bob Lefsetz on Neil Young ticket prices

[mark tonin]

like i said earlier in a thread, keep the ticket prices high, and keep the fly by nighters away until he tours during the summer, and you can get your lawn tix for 45 bucks.

At this point, I don't think I'd go to see him from the lawn at the amphitheatre for $45+ either. The last time I saw him there, a whole section of speakers cut out for a chunk of the show, and there were too many fly-by-nighters (seriously). If I could afford the time and money for either show, I'd likely spend the extra money for a Massey Hall experience.

Having said all of that, I'm sure that those of you who are going to one or more of the Massey Hall shows are in for a huge treat. Enjoy, and please share your thoughts and feelings with the rest of us on this board!

Peace, Mark

[StoneMtn]

I think that in this particular case it's also relevant to mention that Neil does do plenty to help out the less-fortunate.

I've seen him play a benefit show at an arena in a small town, in front of 2500 people. He did it to help out a small group who were fighting the local powers that be, against using very polluting fuel sources. I know that he did that show without being paid a cent, and incurred cost to get himself there. He's also incarnated and repeatedly played other benefit shows to help others in need.

In my opinion, Neil isn't gouging in this case because he could charge much more, and he is altruistic enough in other ways that his character can't be impugned. Just my opinion.

[paisley]

if I go out and buy a good book, it usually costs more than not so good books... same goes for a meal and many things

Neil Young is in a caliber of a very few and worth coughing up good money to see in a fairly intimate venue... only thing I've disliked about seeing Neil in the past was being crammed in with rock radio drones screaming for "Heart of Gold!" at the end of every song... think catching Neil somewhere where you have the possibility of sharing a smile with him during the show totally makes the price worthwhile... far as I know Neil is fairly charitable with his money as well, but that aside I think he's earned the prestige to charge the price

people can cry unfair all they want but the bottom line is the tickets sell out and the fans walk away happy

[secondtube]

pais, you state things so much better than i do!

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

Personally, I think that Neil is a a hypocrite. No, he won't sing for Pepsi, but gouging fans? He has no problem with that. If he was playing in Ottawa on this tour I wouldn't be going. I just can't afford those ticket prices. I wish that I could, but that's life. I did choose to pay big bucks to see CSNY last summer, and in the past. Neil can get the money, so he charges it. It's his right to do so. I don't have to buy a ticket if I feel that it's too expensive. Unfortunately, there are probably many people who have never, and will never, get to see Neil, because of the high cost of his tickets. Obviously, he doesn't care.

I'd actually rather see a huge Coke sign on the stage and pay $100 less for a ticket.

I don't think that I'm entitled to see Neil for free, or at a price that I can afford, either. I'll never make that argument. But, I would have a LOT more respect for the man if he did charge a ticket price that I, and many other of his fans, could afford. And I will spend my money on other artists, when i can do so - I'll be able to see 5 other shows instead for the same total cost.

And all that doesn't deny all of the good work the man does for charitable and worthwhile causes.

And it costs a lot to have a huge train collection, I guess. (Doesn't he actually own Lionel Trains, or a part of it now?)

thats my 2 cents.

[ollie]

In my opinion, Neil isn't gouging in this case because he could charge much more, and he is altruistic enough in other ways that his character can't be impugned. Just my opinion.

At what price point then would you consider it gouging?

I don't mean to impugn Neil's character. I'm just calling it what I think it is. He's not the only one for sure.

[NewRider]

people can cry unfair all they want but the bottom line is the tickets sell out and the fans walk away happy

I certainly wouldn't call it unfair. There are plenty of shows that are out of my price range and I don't throw a fit about it. I will say that I do respect an artist that keeps their shows and music accessible to their fans. I know A LOT of places that cost an arm and a leg to eat and it's great. I also know a handful of places to eat that are great and I don't have to break the bank to eat there.

So I don't see Neil Young for $250... big deal. I'm happy going to see Cuff The Duke and Spiral Beach for $5 next month. Of course they COULD charge more for that show but they don't.

[StoneMtn]

I consider gouging to be intentionally charging as much as you possibly can, and still sell out every show. I think Neil is intentionally charging less than he could get away with. A gouger would charge as much as he could get away with, I would think.

[paisley]

if ya don't want a $250 orange silk tie, don't buy one... but you can't knock people for selling em for that price if they have trouble keeping the shelves stocked... particularly if they're good people who do good things on the planet

Massey Hall seats 2800 people... Molson Amphitheater seats 16,000 - 18,000... Air Canada Center 19,000

assume it'd be roughly a $50 ticket in a big venue

performing at a venue that holds roughly one sixth of the capacity of the venues he usually plays Neil is averaging the same take in, if not less, by charging $275 as he would playing the large halls... that and the show is in a MUCH cooler environment, like night and day

I didn't buy tickets because I couldn't afford them right now... that said, I would've happily paid the price to see Neil at Massey Hall... even if I could afford tickets to see Neil at ACC or Molson Amph I wouldn't pay for it because seeing Neil in a stadium isn't how I'd want to see him anymore (been there done that a lot of times for Neil, imagine how HE feels about stadiums)

he's not Judas Priest (whom I would still go see at ACC or Molson Amph)

[MarcO]

I'll just say that the consistent ramping up of ticket prices SUCKS for now and leave it at that.

However, I will share with you an interesting and sympathetic response that Lefsetz got (hey, like Bob or not, his newsletter has some must-read responses from some industry peeps; did you miss Phish's ex-manager John Paluska responding last week about how Phish kept their ticket prices down? Bob's newsletter is worth the free subscription taking some room in yer inbox, imo).

I saw around Neil ten years ago in Concord, CA. It was the first and only time in my life I paid a scalper for tickets, $75.00 for six row left of center seats. It was a Crazy Horse show. The show was amazing, Bob. I'm not exaggerating, it was simply amazing. I went in a passive fan familiar with Neil and came out a convert. The end of of the show, giant candles which had been burning all during the show were picked up and the melted wax slung all over the stage while Neil went nuts during an astounding jam out by him and his band of Hey Hey, My My. No makeup, no explosions, no fancy clothes and sets..... just pure, unadulterated rock and roll music with an animal unleashed at the ending that to this day still finds itself at the top ten list of concerts I've seen in my lifetime. I left there completely happy that I paid that scalper and sat by myself in the middle of those people, because the show was astounding.

I was close enough to see Neil's guitar rig, consisting of several amps and its own little PA system and mixer for them, plus his knob-turning contraption custom-made for him that got pre-set tone choices from the amps using mechanical knob-turners placed over the amp knobs instead of using sampled guitar tones, etc. I saw that night why I can never seem to get my Les Pauls to sound the way Neil's Les Pauls sound.

A few weeks later, friends of mine are getting married. Neil is a friend of theirs too and come to the small wedding and reception at a rented private hall somewhere in the Oakland Hills. Neil, in his Hawaiian shirt and white pants, sandals and hat, is there. We sit next to each other on a bench and eat food from the buffet on our paper plates. I get up the courage to tell him I bought a scalped ticket, and that I'd never seen him before, and how absolutely knocked out I was by that magical show. Neil grinned. He was so nice. I turned the conversation to shop talk about that guitar rig setup. He lit up like a little kid talking about his favorite fire truck and for a good half our or so, described in detail how the idea came about, talked about the guy who made the system for him, the various amps, and humbly, gently thanked me for noticing the rig and liking it. People all around enjoying the reception, and me and Neil sitting there talking guitars, amps and tone like we were a couple of kids in a music store. Try having that conversation with Bob Dylan some time......

About five or so years ago, Neil was preparing for his short run with Crazy Horse to South America. He had two suprise performances at the Warfield in San Francisco. The shows were announced the same day the first was to happen. Knowing they would sell out immediately, my employees and I, tipped off to the tickets going on sale, rushed to the local Ticketbastard location at a Long's Drugstore near our publishing offices in Vallejo, CA. Expecting lines, we sweated and rushed and ran..... got into the store, nobody in line. Went to the ticket sales counter, bought four tickets for each show, $35 each plus fees. The Warfield, Bob! Tiny venue by comparison. Both nights, beautiful magic. He could have easily got $200 a head for that tiny show, and scalpers outside on Market Street had no problem doing it. I saw them sell them while I waited in line.

I won't go into the wonderful things Neil does as a human for Bridge School every year with his benefit show in the SF bay area. I won't humor you with details of Neil telling a room full of audio engineers, producers and manufacturers at the TEC Awards during AES to not interpolate his music into surround, and how much CD's suck (while the high-ranking SONY people sat there in front of him).

I don't know who sets these crazy ticket prices. I don't pretend to know the mindset behind it, or Ticketbastard, or even the real costs of a tour in the 21st Century, but I do know this much, Bob. Neil Young is a good guy, with a good heart, a truckload of talent and Neil Young has nothing, I mean NOTHING to be ashamed of, Bob.

Mike Lawson

[phorbesie]

Personally, I think that Neil is a a hypocrite. No, he won't sing for Pepsi, but gouging fans? He has no problem with that. If he was playing in Ottawa on this tour I wouldn't be going. I just can't afford those ticket prices. I wish that I could, but that's life.

i don't see how he's a hypocrite at all. these are special small shows and his shows usually are less expensive than this.

i know i dont' earn more money than the others on this board. perhaps we just choose to spend our money differently. i don't have a car, house, cottage, pet, etc. everyone makes their own choices. if anyone (not referring only to big woolly here) says they can't afford a ticket i'd say what are you spending your money on? well, you're spending it on something else that is more important to you, and that's fine. this is important to me, moreso than a car or whatever, and in that light it doesn't seem like that much money.

it's like when people i know tell me i'm so "lucky" because i "get to" travel a lot or this or that. that bugs me because it's not luck, it's a choice. trips don't fall out of the sky. neither do your cars, houses, etc, you see where i'm going with this...everyone gives up some things in order to pursue others.

neil is a good man and has done plenty for the world, imo. i have nothing but respect.

[paisley]

if it was $200 to see Neil at the Air Canada Center I'd agree it was price gouging...

world famous artist + small venue = bigger price

[Kanada Kev]

Great letter. I know Mike Lawson, he's a really good guy with a big heart. He is a guitar player himself and has a great CD called Ticket To Fly. Had a bunch of the bay area boys play on it with him. He was VERY close with Vince Welnick and I heard a lot of crazy stories through him. Things are a lot different (in many ways) when you hear stories from people who are close as friends to the "famous".

http://www.mikelawson.com/

BTW - i look at ticket prices and am astonished with how they have gone up over the years. It's mainly because they "can". When people stop paying big bucks for certain acts, they're forced to play smaller venues, or lower them, or go on the casino circuit (guaranteed cash).

Neil tix are the most I've paid for, for a concert. You know what? I don't begrudge it at all. Considering how many amazing concerts I've been able to attend below cost, free, or at very fair rates it all balances out. If i were to take an equation of the numbers of hours of live music i've experienced and divided it by the total price of tickets and admission i've paid it would be VERY affordable and fair. Just recently I've been able to get:

Genesis rehearsal show = $0

Genesis @ BMO Field = $0 (won tix)

Rush @ ACC = $40 floors on eBay

Daniel Lanois w/Brian Blade (and Garth Hudson) = $35

Springsteen @ ACC = $0 (won tix)

Phil Lesh @ SHea's = $50

Gov't Mule @ Kool Haus = $35

That's a total of $160 for 7 show = $22.86 each.

Damn fair. I know some of it may have been luck, but retail for all of those would have come in around $885 ... ridiculous!

Now adding a Neil show raises my average to about $45 per show recently, but then I can toss in a few gigs here and there with $10-$15 covers and it comes down again.

There's tons of high quality live music out there that you can experience very very cheaply. Just let it "offset" the odd indulgence now and then.

I liked how it was compared earlier to going out for food. Price does not always reflect quality, but it can be an invaluable experience.

[NewRider]

neil is a good man and has done plenty for the world, imo. i have nothing but respect.

I'll second that!

[NewRider]

Springsteen @ ACC = $0 (won tix)

Need a date?

[Booche]

You got it together cuz.

[headymamamyrna]

Cuz sure has it together.

like I will give up my house to keep my car.

I'd live in my car if I had to in order to keep it.

It all boils down to what is important to you.

i also hate it when people say oh you are so lucky you own your house.

Well yes i am but it didn't come easy either.

I am so lucky I have a car too!

[Big Wooly Mammoth]

Re can't affording a ticket and following up on what Phorbesie said - I agree, that it's all about choices. If I hadn't spent all of the money that I have spent on things like traveling to Europe, numerous trips to California and other locales to see the Dead, all the many concerts that I've seen, etc., I'd probably have much smaller mortgage payments right now (buying a house in Sandy Hill was also one of those choices) and could "afford" a Neil ticket. Those are the choice that I made. I also chose to have kids, and you know what? They are damn expensive too! But I love them, and I have no regrets about having them or my past life choices. We decided that my wife would stay home with the kids. She could have made big bucks with her law degree (and I'm not saying that everyone with a law degree makes big bucks by any means) if she had wanted to. She decided to go back to school and get a B.Ed. last year. Unfortunately there are no full time teaching jobs, in Ottawa, right now, which is one reason we can't afford to go to shows like this right now (and the savings have dried up).(the next few months are prolly gonna see me going to less concerts than I have in like 20 years. And I'm fine with that. I do hope to see the Assembly of Dust in Canton in December, though.)

Not that I can even see Neil on this tour as he's not coming to Ottawa, but at the moment Neil tix would rank below things like skiing lessons and dance lessons for my kids, and skiing passes for my wife and I (the $99 ones this year!).

I don't begrudge anybody that's going to these shows. We all make our choices. I honestly hope that they kick ass and you all have a blast. Just make sure that somebody tapes them so that I can hear them! (and I want a quality recording taboot! )

(talk about going off topic....)

for what it's worth. CSN tickets in small venues have been around $35 in recent years (IIRC), but CSNY tix in arenas have been like $150. (and like I said previously, I chose to buy those in the past, when I could "afford" them. I had a great time at the shows.)

Edited September 30, 2007 by Guest

[phishtaper]

isnt it the promoter who sets the ticket price, and not the artist? who's the promoter?