what makes an american

[bradm]

First off, if foreign (or any) big-box stores are succeeding in Canada, it's because *Canadians* are shopping there, so your fellow Canadians are at least partly to blame. (And, IIRC, Ikea is Swedish, not American. I've bought stuff at Ikea [and at local stores like 7th Heaven Futons and Simply Wood] because they have the product I want at a reasononable price.)

Second, taking an opinion about American big-box stores and pumping it up into a hate screed against a particular people is *not* helping any. (Go and read shainhouse's "I am SO ANGRY RIGHT NOW..." thread; I don't like that kind of thing directed at Canadians *or* Americans. Hate actions, not peoples).

The Cavern does often veer into non-musical/non-Phish (hey, it's the *Phish* Sanctuary) topics, but this kind of political rant isn't any fun. Instead of screaming about what's bad about America (e.g., its big-box stores), how about presenting some alternatives: if you don't want to buy stuff at Wal-Mart or Ikea, where do you go?

Aloha,

Brad

[h]

about Home Depot

i shop at big box stores because as a canadian i am being taxed the shit out of and am so close to poverty that if walmart has the kitchen broom i need at $3 cheaper than zellers, as my everyday debt grows and i see more welfare recipients receiving 'heating cost rebates' then shit, that's $3 i'm saving by going to walmart... the fight has long since left me even though i'm playing right into their hands.

about this booing bullshit

i am actually deeply hurt about all this booing, more than i probably should be --> i've only seen glimmers of this in newspaper headlines - something about basketballgames, booing the national anthem and shit

i've yet to figure out WHY they are booing us lately - was blowing the shit out of one of our regiments not enough for them?

sorry bradm - i know i should have left this alone after your post, but i'm just a little bit ornery today...

[Ms.Huxtable]

Ikea does have impressive prices on candles. Buy some, light them, sit in a nice hot bubble bath and tell me that's so bad!

I lean towards hating the American lifestyle and attitude as well. I am certainly not happy about this ever consuming world, where our priorities have shifted from family and friends to the kind of jeans we wear. Are Americans really responsible for consumerism and the dumbening of the Earth or are they just easier to blame then looking at ourselves? Can we blame them if we follow them? Are we not as guilty (or more so) for recognizing the problems that the American attitude leads to, and hopping on the wagon despite the known and dreaded consequences?

Of course we hate to have generalizations made about being Canadian, and should be mindful of adding to sterotypes of Americans. As many negative things as there are to say about Americans, we must also consider the benefits of being their neighbor. Canadians are fortunate to have such a high quality of life, this standard of living was accomplished on the back of the Americans. Like it or not, it's a symbiotic relationship.

They are stupid though. All of them. Real stupid. I'll agree with that whole-heartedly!

[treyter]

i am a consumer and so are all of u.

if you find yourself a better price w/better service at a wall mart, or a future shop, then why not? these large corporations still give paychecks to thousands of people who are just trying to feed their families too.

at the same time, for things like gas, where everyone in the marketplace pretty much has the same price always, i prefer to support a local gas station rather than an esso or exxon. eat at local restaurants rather than mcd's or a chubbway, support the purchasing of canadian goods and services wherever possible in your professional environment (if you have an option).

[jaybone]

Not a huge fan of the anti-american rant. But on the topic of big box stores i gotta say that those stores damage the community. Sure they hand out paychecks to canadians...minimum wage paychecks. But what you don't see is the small business owner who can't make it cuz he can't afford to buy in mass quantities and sell that broom for $3 less. So instead of a neighbour owning a store, paying taxes and improving the community, you get a big box store, who's profits go to stock holders (the big money goes to u.s. execs),who employ lots of mcworkers (who can't afford to shop anywhere else)and who have shut down the independant music store, book store, hardward store, grocery store and sports store. this can gut a thriving downtown community and increases suburbia and mall culture in general

The only way we can keep our community and culture diverse is to be a smart consumer. Make the decision to not save $2 at Walmart and help keep your neighbour's store open. Every purchase counts and everything we consume is a decision. It's tough to practice what I'm preaching, but whenever possible try to avoid the franchises, go to farmers markets. Find great furniture at antique shops or garage sales. Try and find unique clothing instead of becoming an old naby drone. Look at tags and see where your clothing was made. Think before you buy and try and make every purchase help the community. It's gotta start somewhere, why not with me and you.

[Asparagus]

No Logo.

[jaybone]

Culture Jam

[h]

yep your right jaybone, all i was trying to say was that it's important to look at why it's so important to save $2 in this country too i think.

[rubberdinghy]

I AM A BIG BOX SHOPPER AND PROUD OF IT! I agree with H, I am probably going to save a buck wherever I can...Sure Wal-mart and the other guys can buy in quantity to sell low, and sure it sometimes is forceable..(ask Asparagus) he`s not going to be happy with this...It just comes down to the fact that Sam Walton was a genius and Christ would I love to have started Wal-mart. But you also have to remember these big chains have there problems too...Whatever happened to Kmart or Biway. It`s all same. I worked religiously in the notorious video store from the States that everyone said was going to be the end all of all the local guys...Oh well so be it...If the Canadian Gov`t really cared they wouldn`t have let them come in...They do limit the number of fast food stores, that`s why it took so long for Taco-Bell to come to Ottawa...damn shame...why not do the same in the video industry...

Anyways...they are here, I am going to use them, and I LOVE BIG MACS...IKEA on the other hand...I am mad at them and a few of you out there know why!

Wow...Did that make sense? If not please disregard!

[SaggyBalls]

dreaded consequences huh...i prefer to think about the dredded consequences when i get to party at frontiertown with some happy heads!!

yee haw!

[Giggles]

There are some Americans I love...some I can't stand. The same goes for Canadians and other people of other nationality. What makes an American? A: They were born in a country with a flag that has the red, white and blue. What makes some American's assholes? Same thing that makes some Canadians and some other people of other nationality assholes: Their choices! I am a firm believer that in the end, WE do what WE decide ourselves...it's choices, it's life. Sometimes, very poor, irresponsible choices are made. Why are some asshole Americans booing the Canadian national anthem? You need a secret "I'm an american asshole" decoder ring to find the answer I think.....

my $0.02...

Giggles

-*I try to support thy neighbours place of business too...I buy my herb local...puff puff ahhhhhhhhhh..........

-*this is my 420th post too...hahahah

[Guest Low Roller]

Can't we all just get along?

[Asparagus]

Nice summary Jaybone. Hit me where my brains thinks.

[doubleB]

commerce is the new colonialism

think abnout it

we surrendered long ago

[Guest Low Roller]

And now, George W smoking a big joint:

[weezy]

I already did my USA bashing in shainhouse's thread (it's soo fun - and easy!) so no more of that for now, but there's no defending the damn big-box stores. First they consolidated all kinds of traditional stores like hardware, clothing, supermarkets etc. - then they created a monopoly and starved all their Canadian counterparts' to death through anti-competitive behavior. It is just another notch in the manifest destiny plan.

(globalization=Americanization)

We're all suckers.

[CharlieDon'tSurf]

Guess what...globalization...the days of patriotism and World Wars are moot... to stand by a country and pump your fists until you're blue in the face is about as useful and constructive as sticking your elbow in your ear. I love where I live, not because its Canada, but because the people I surround myself with are decent people, the rest I try and ignore or I tailgate them until they go away...

By the way, if ya wanna shop at Home Despot or Squall Mart (which I often do), what the hell. They are stores, not the Anti-Christ and if you think they are, you might wanna peruse that priority list and make some edits... just a thought...

[zimmerman pt 2]

yeah, well I'll tell you something:

you ain't saving jack shit when you go to Blackbuster.

Sure they have a zillion copies of the new releases, but their service is beyond shite, their knowledge and selection of films is depressing, in some cases they set up purposely next to local video stores just to steal their clients(ie Queen Video in Tdot), and their late fees cost and arm and a leg.

SUPPORT YOUR HOMEGROWN LOCAL VIDEO STORES (ie Queen Video or Suspect in Tdot).

thnx

[show---whore]

now that i got my rant out i feel much better. im not anti-american,but i am anti-american in canada. i am also very upset over the whole booing canada after they killed four of us. i know it was a careless misstake but the USA should mybe be a little nicer to us right now instead of booing us. i trying to keep canada as much canadian as possiable

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I've never dropped a dime in Walmart and haven't eaten at McShits for almost 4 years.

It's not that tough... Keep your money in Canada !

[reba]

boycotting is a nice gesture. but i think when it comes down to it, it is only that. i don't shop at walmart because i try to give my business to downtown merchants. but what am i buying from those downtown merchants? products that are manufactured either by or for a u.s. company. i drink coke. and buy citrus fruit. and avocados. and countless other foods that originate in the u.s. and brush my teeth with crest. the list is endless.

maybe that's a website idea: compiling a site that lists all-canadian versions of every product we use in day-to-day life.

[show---whore]

yes reba those are US compaines but there is a coke canada and a crest canada budwiser is made by labbats.

[Ms.Huxtable]

I kinda like that idea Reba.

[Davey Boy 2.0]

I like oyur website idea, Reba, but at the same time you gotta do what you can.

It'd be like saying,"Why should I try to save electricity or not waste gas when the gas and oil industries are the real culprits?"

[weezy]

This is starting to remind me of "The Manufacture of Consent" - a book and documentary by Noam Chomsky (if anyone hasn't seen/read this - you can borrow it from most libraries - very interesting) The title refers to how governments and corporations have been creating a false sense of normalcy and "consent" for their actions through creative propaganda and selective news reporting.

In it, he said that only YOU are responsible for what YOU DO - you are not responsible for what BIG CORPORATIONS do or for what GOVERNMENTS do.

There's always an alternative to the Wal Marts or Home Depots or BestBuy/FutureShops - it just may not be as convenient or cheap.

I propose the infamous "CANADIAN COMPROMISE"

Pretend you're a diabetic and treat big-box stores like sugar. Small doses in moderation. Always be aware of who you're supporting with your money.

PS. The co-op grocery down the street from me put signs on all products made by Philip Morris (tobacco company) so the consumer can make the informed decision - they include all Kraft products, Altoids mints, Shake n' bake etc... How cool is that?