Who do we vote for?

[CyberHippie]

So I don't really follow politics. But I've just discovered that the candidate for the Conservatives "Harper" is essentially a Canadian version of Bush, and his party is looking more like a Canadian Republican party. Sooooo.... Clearly we can not vote PC. Which I wasn't really planning on. But it seems to me that if we don't want this dick to get into power, then we *have* to vote liberal.

Does this sound about right?

Should I really have to vote for one party just to ensure another party doesn't get in. Seems like a *major* flaw in democracy to me. Don't vote for who you want, vote for the runner up to who you don't want to win?

[\/\/illy]

That's pretty much how I'm reading it. Let's not let him get in the way that Bush got in: Get out and vote!

[thatpatguy]

yeah.. that is one of many major flaws in democracy.. but that's a discussion for another forum all together

I find the CBC has a good website that can bring you up to speed with the parties and their platforms pretty quickly. The URL is www.cbc.ca/canadavotes

It's my understanding that in Canada we should be voting soley for our MP for that is our voice in the house of commons. Though that isn't really true so much since MPs have to vote on party lines, it's still a half decent way to approach who you are going to vote for.

Look at your local candidates and try and figure out which one you would want representing your values in the government.

I believe that if more people did that then we would see more minority governments and I think those are the best because they can't just pass any bill through the house that they want.

I, myself, will be voting NDP because I find they have the best platform to go along with my personal beliefs on how the country should be run. Also, Ed Broadbent is my candidate, and I think he kicks ass, regardless of which party he belongs to.

It's scary that the conservatives have really come back from behind, but I'm not going to let it decide who I'm going to vote for.. call me naive but I'm still going to vote the way the system was supposed to work.

ok.. I'll get off my soapbox now.. I tend to ramble on

[CyberHippie]

It's scary that the conservatives have really come back from behind, but I'm not going to let it decide who I'm going to vote for.. call me naive but I'm still going to vote the way the system was supposed to work.

I can respect that. That's what my heart tells me, but I'd sure hate for it to be super close, and have Harper win.

[CyberHippie]

Also how much do you think the all the pre-poll results effect voting? Personally I think it could effect it alot, and that's shitty. No one wants to vote for a looser.

[TimmyB]

As a union man and an auto worker I really should support the NDP party. Also since I live in a riding where the NDP could win, Hamilton West. Where the NDP with David Christopherson could beat Stan Keyes the Liberal incumbent.

But I'll be voting Liberal because I feel that as Joe Clark the former prime minister and leader of the Progressive Conservative party said a couple of weeks before the election. "The devil we know (Prime Minister Paul Martin) scares me less than the devil we don't know (Stephen Harper)." To me that speaks volumes for anyone out there that doesn't follow polititcs.

Yes in an ideal world I would love for the NDP to run this country, but I'm a realist and the NDP does not speak to the status quo and the majority of Canadians. The Liberal party is the one national party that speaks to the majority of Canadians. The Liberals even with all their provincal tax increases and sponsership scandal are the best party for this country.

I told some people recently that I would rather the Liberals get in and break every promise in their platform because at least things would stay the same. Rather than the Conservative (ie Reform and/or Canadian Alliance) get in and implement just a twenty-five percent of their promises which would turn this great country of ours inside out and upside down.

I don't hate America but I also don't want to be an American and under the Conservative Party Canada will quickly become the closest thing to the USA other than the USA.

That is why I'll be voting for Stan Keyes in Hamilton West on June 28, 2004.

[Im going home Donny]

It seems to me the entire reason that we're so close to having a Conservative G. is because of the Liberals B.S.....so it doesn't make sense to me to reward their ways with a vote? Now this is just my opinion and I'm still voting Green.....but what if the Conservatives do get in......then next time around the country might be pissed enough and brave enough to go further left....NDP with some Green.....in my opinion the Liberals are just conservatives under the Liberal title.

[TimmyB]

I have to respectively disagree with you howler. Yes the liberals are just the PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVES under the title of liberals. But it is not the PC anymore. The New CONSERVATIVE is the old REFORM and CANADIAN ALLIANCE. The Conservative platform is far to the right of the political spectrum and would if elected implement bills that could shatter everything that makes us proud to be Canadian.

Yes this Liberal party is fiscally conservative especially under Paul Martin, but they will not destroy our public health care and education as the Conservatives would. Let alone what the Conservatives will do hamper the ability for a female to have an abortion.

Also Harper will get tough on crime and increase our jails and try and start up the death penalty again. I am totally anti capitol punishment and The USA and Japan are the only first world countries in the world that still have it. I don't want Canada to all of a sudden be putting in people for minor crimes such as drug possession which the Conservative party would do.

The Conservative party constantly offends me with everything they say. Like how we have to implement America's labour practices! As Canadians we hav much better working conditions than the USA and he wants us to work like Americans, well fuck him.

Yes I like the NDP more, just l like Ralph Nadar more in America, but if I was an American I would be voting for the Democrates instead of Nadar.

I say vote strategically and wisely as my union leader Buzz Hargrove said during the provincial election. If you know the NDP or the Green party have a shot at winning then by all means vote for them. But if they don't and it's between the Conservatives and the Liberals, please don't be mislead to thinking they are one in the same because they are not.

[Groove Fetish]

for sure one the worst things I can see about the way the system works versus the way it should or is supposed to work is that it you cannot often vote with your actual sentiments and your forced to choose the lesser of the evils.

After watching the debate I honestly was fightened that the new Conservatives had done a great job of appearing as the sheep but surely they are the wolf. I am afraid that they could have more ground that we want them to have and the need to strategically make sue that there is no danger of them getting in is feeling pretty real.

I am from Guelph- historically Liberal and Brenda Chamberlain could very likely take it again- it might be the safest thing to do, cause when I do look at our riding I do not see that the other party offerings are very strong.

AS TimmyB says- careful- look at your riding to see who has to best potential to win, if it does seem potentially close between the Conservatives and the Liberals- you may just want to consider backing the Liberals- you can rest assured that as a citizen supporting Green ideals will be a lot easier under the Liberals than the Conservatives, or so I would have to think.

anyway- my only point is it will be a tough choice this election and I wish you all luck in making your choices.

and wow- I actually felt ok about the Bloc Guy- Duceppe

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

cyber-hippie--before I begin, remember voting is based on opinion, so in essence you must make your own consciencious choice. comparing Harper and Bush is not as relevant as comparing conservatives to republicans. The basic idealism of both parties is to promote free enterprise/capitalism. Thus, big business benefits directly from their policies. They get breaks to stir economy and that creates jobs. However, that is subject to those holding the majority of influence in mnc/domestic corporations. aka--working class is at the back of the line benefits from a booming economy--trickle down effect. As well, these parties are not in favour of social policies, such as equal education, universal health care, welfare system,etc.

the liberals--fundamentally stand for freedom. usually they have the best interest of the whole,however, they are not strictly pro-working class, nor pro- corporation. kind of fall somewhere between the ndp, and pc.

ndp is pro-working class and pro-social programs, they are also very pro-environment, but noy as far as the green party.

however, the ndp will not beable to balance a budget under the circumstances we are in. we saw evidence of that under the provincially elected bob ray. Ideally, the green party and ndp have the best policies, however, they are not feasible in today's economy and high interest rates, high debt, and high unemployment are related to their policies.

I am extremely anti-conservative. I will vote liberal for two reasons. First, let me say, they are far from perfect, however, I trust them and embrace many of their ideals, Ifeel as though they have the best interests for canadians. my example is this: the fact that we said no to Iraq, was ahuge statement made on the world stage. We have embraced the characteristic of being a peace keeper, and the liberal policies reflect that. If the conservatives win this election, we will spend a hell of alot ofmoney building our military--and I have one question for that---what the fuck for??

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

pardon my typing errors--onlyb have one hand to work with. ::

[DevO]

I voted strategically once and felt rotten for it. Vote for who you would like to see in power.. If you think about it in the long term, which I think isn't a bad idea when it comes to shifts in political power, it makes more sense. I'll be voting NDP!

[MoMack]

Two things that I want to add.

First: Canada needs proportional representation! It is a silly system that forces people to vote against instead of for parties... makes no sense at all.

Second: This election is the perfect time for NDP supporters to vote NDP. The stronger the NDP contingent, the more influence they will have on what is almost certain to be a MINORITY government. The last time we had a successful minority government (not counting Joe in '79 here), the NDP pushed and got health care across our nation.

I can understand the fear, wanting to vote against Harper, but thats what they want you to do... vote your conscience. The NDP can make a difference in a minority government.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

momack istrongly disagree with that--- health care was widely accepted--and a minority gov't= stagnation, and frustration. ndp is not a feesible gov't in our country, as much as i hate to admit it.

[MoMack]

I voted strategically once and felt rotten for it. Vote for who you would like to see in power.. If you think about it in the long term, which I think isn't a bad idea when it comes to shifts in political power, it makes more sense. I'll be voting NDP!

Thats a great point... the NDP are in a no win situation because of strategic voting in the past.. they need to improve each election so that they can eventually gain momentum and a slice of the action...

On a side note.. are there any skanks that are involved in the NDP? Especially in Toronto?

[rubberdinghy]

As a union man and an auto worker I really should support the NDP party. Also since I live in a riding where the NDP could win, Hamilton West.

Surprised your not voting Communist...Maybe there isn't a candidate in your riding...I'd be up for a four day work week.

I'll be voting NDP because I like Jack Layton's smile, and Ed B's rap!

[Groove Fetish]

all right- MoMack- you have just voice the other side of my head- that the party in power will most certainly be a minority regardless so the best strategy is to think about the Parliment sitting and if you'd like to see more left than surely yes- this may be the vote where the youth turnout- flabbergasts the elders- the NDP have a shot at power if not "the power".

so yes- regardless of who of the big two get in the thought of some levity in parliment is comforting.

all right- I can honestly say I'm fairly undecided still!- ARRRGGGHHHH- but harper sure scares me.

[MoMack]

momack istrongly disagree with that--- health care was widely accepted--and a minority gov't= stagnation, and frustration. ndp is not a feesible gov't in our country, as much as i hate to admit it.

My understanding is that healthcare was implemented in the NDP stronghold prairies (can't remember if it was Sask, or Mant.) and then the NDP forced it on Trudeau (who took much credit, and in fact ran for the NDP before moving to the liberals)

A Minority does not mean stagnation... look at France (for sure), Germany (I think), and hell, even Australia where I am now is a coalition government.

In the current political landscape, and given the past failures of Bob Rae, it seems like the NDP could not run the country perfectly (I say this as a staunch NDP supporter), but what they can do is keep the other's honest by holding them hostage with their votes in the house.

Canada is unlike almost every other political institution, in that 40% of the vote runs the country with no checks or balances. We have no real upper house, the majority governments steam rolls over everything. A minority government just means more interests have to be taken into account.

Sorry, that wasn't a well written essay.. its 8am in Australia, and I'm still on coffee number 1.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

momack--i understand what you are saying-- but if the conservatives for a minority gov't-- our international stance is at stake-- that for me is the pre-dominant concern... also, a two-tier healthcre plan will be implemented, and, the cost of education will rise-- i vote anti-conservative first-- look at what happened during the 2000-- US election--nader cost the democrats the election.

[MoMack]

momack--i understand what you are saying-- but if the conservatives for a minority gov't-- our international stance is at stake-- that for me is the pre-dominant concern... also, a two-tier healthcre plan will be implemented, and, the cost of education will rise-- i vote anti-conservative first-- look at what happened during the 2000-- US election--nader cost the democrats the election.

But you're missing something huge here. How are the conservatives going to pass all those bills? What other party will support troops in Iraq? The liberals and conservatives won't likely agree on much, just to maintain seperation. The bloc is running on a social democrat platform, they may agree to some stuff, but it won't be two tiered systems, and it won't be Iraq. Maybe some tax cuts, and budget work. The NDP obviously won't agree with much the conservatives want to do, unless they can get some serious tit for tat going on.

I suppose there are liberal back benchers that might agree.. but other then that it doesn't seem that dangerous. How much damage did Joe do in 6 months in '79?

[MoMack]

momack--i understand what you are saying-- but if the conservatives for a minority gov't-- our international stance is at stake-- that for me is the pre-dominant concern... also, a two-tier healthcre plan will be implemented, and, the cost of education will rise-- i vote anti-conservative first-- look at what happened during the 2000-- US election--nader cost the democrats the election.

Plus, comparing it to a presidential system is unfair. The US is a fully 2 party system, with a president, and a functioning lower and upper house. Its not the same as trying to pass something in Canada.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

true--but don't forget what in house fighting can lead too.. the more seats the conservatives get, the more likely we see their policies implemented. i trust the liberals--so they get my vote.

[Blurry]

I actually haven't read any of the posts on this thread.....just the title so I want to chime in with my 3 cents.

First please please please go vote!!!

and as much as everyone is entitled to their opinions and views;

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DO NOT repeat: DO NOT vote for Stephen Harper (what a fuckin' idiot he is!!) That is PLEASE DO NOT vote conservative....anybody else, ANYBODY ELSE!!

Ya the Liberals may have fucked up a lot but that ain't gonna be nothing compared to what will happen if HARPER is elected! (the double negative is for extra emphasis)

As well, if you're not sure, it's always nice to help Hux ::

[CyberHippie]

Wow, just checked my riding:

Jay Wagner

Party: Marijuana Party

I guess that would be squandering my vote eh?

Seems like my riding has pretty strong Liberal support. Maybe it's safe to vote NDP then?

[MoMack]

true--but don't forget what in house fighting can lead too.. the more seats the conservatives get, the more likely we see their policies implemented. i trust the liberals--so they get my vote.

If they get very close to a minority government then yes, there will be enough back benchers etc to help them along.. but if they're shy 10-15 or more seats then their policies will only be implemented if they tone them down, or if they are traded off with other policies.

And I"m affriad I've forgotten what inhouse fighting can lead to?