THOUGHTS FROM A PROMOTER THAT you might like to re

[c-towns]

Great thread, I've been contemplating getting into the "scene" out here in Calgary, but I've just been listening from the outside.

What are some possible sponsors for these heady shows?

Comunity Natural Food stores

Mountain Equipment Coop (stores like that)

Head shops

Record Shops

University/College Radio

Musical instrument shops

anything else?

[bald guy in a blanket]

Vastly interesting thread.

I've been contemplating this a lot lately. As a musician in a band (UNCLE SETH) what makes the difference? What makes a Barenaked Ladies show a complete sellout at Pine Knob vs. a half empty Red Rocks for The DEAD.

I don't know. I suspect it has more to do with the excitement and vitality of the performance in question than us artists would like to think. (Ironically I was blown away by the DEAD this year at BONNAROO) Music is music, it is listened to...performance is experienced with multiple senses (ask Gallagher). It is more than just music.

Now the example I gave was a little outside the current point as both those bands are unqualified Rock Stars, but the theory holds. BNL has always been interested in making their show a high energy, witty, musically satisfying conversation with its audience (once described by a reviewer as "watching fire") while the DEAD only succeed at that elusive audience connection infrequently at best. When they do it can be argued that they transcend most other music acts out there, but it can't be counted on. Not by a consumer in a competitive marketplace. The same holds true of our "scene". There's some great, even fantastic, music. But not too many great performers.

One person I know said that the problem with most young bands is that their perfomance is merely an imitation of established rock stars. An established rock star does not have to earn the audience's respect or attention. Most newer bands don't know how to do this.

I know I'm breaking my back trying to learn how.

Worse, most people (and I obviously don't mean those who frequent our fine board here) seem to think going to see live music is a boring option. Like charity for a struggling artist or something. Too many lackluster performers have had quite an effect on the public over the years. This is not the core of the problem, though.

Even worse than a tired community, many artists (myself included) get huffy and whiny about the "scene" when their shows don't go well. Like this "scene" owes them not just a break, but loyalty. If your audience is not paying attention or is bored...be less boring!!

I think this applies to promoters too. If your audience is apathetic...find something that is interesting...even electrifying, believe me the audience will show up, there's not that much "great" out there. As you can see from this board, there are a whole bunch people just dying to be inspired.

It's not impossible, just rare, to find great original music being performed like one's life depends on it.

Remember that in selling anything (even a $5 cover at a bar), it all starts with product.

That's us. The musicians.

I think we've got to get our sh!t together and learn our job.

Jef

[MarcO]

If your audience is not paying attention or is bored...be less boring!!.... I think this applies to promoters too. If your audience is apathetic...find something that is interesting...even electrifying, believe me the audience will show up, there's not that much "great" out there. As you can see from this board, there are a whole bunch people just dying to be inspired.

DING DING DING DING DING!!! WE HAVE A WINNER!!! ::

Post of the day, imo. Some great points, Jef!

[Sunshine]

Talking about attendance to a show:

Don't forget that those people that made up the main scene a few years ago are getting older and are being lost to committment like marriages, kids, full time work...etc..etc.

I'm sure this is just a small portion...but I've seen it happening...

[zero]

I like the comment you've highlighted but don't really agree with much else. I think you are vastly overestimating the thought process of your typical Barenaked Ladies fan. Do you really think that anyone says to themself 'let's go see BNL I read in Rolling Stone that their stage show is particularly engaging'. The reality is that people know the one song that is playing on the radio currently and maybe remember the last radio song and the 'milllion dollars' song and they go. Or the guy is trying to get laid so he gets tickets because he knows his secretary girlfriend only listens to the easy listening station or whatever is going and will likely put out after the show. I mean that is about as much as goes into it I am sure. So the difference between BNL and the Dead is likely %100 about radio play. Period. Most people don't identify closely to music, most people can't tell you what band is playing what song and they definitely don't know about the nuances of live shows. We're talking lowest common denominator here folks.

[paisley]

overbooking should be avoided... 3 really well attended shows beats 6 half full or near empty shows for all involved... in Hamilton you won't likely have good attendance for more than 2 jam crowd related shows any given week, besides maybe every 4 - 6 months having a 3 day run with some sort of accomodations available for out of towners

and get some new blood in... pay a really talented, and likely starving, local artist a decent price to do up some really fun, loud and original posters for some gigs to be put up around the schools and in the local papers... young blood get all their friends out to shows with a ton of enthusiasm once they're hooked... gaining an enthusiastic younger crowd is crucial as older folks know what they like for the most part, don't want to change and, as Sunshine said, tend to get bogged down with commitments

if you have a big older band coming to town make sure you have radio play on the classic rock stations

bald guy in a blanket - no offence but sorry, I'd take any Dead show with half attendance over a packed Bare Naked Ladies show without even a thought... wouldn't go see the BNL again if they were playing next door to my house for free... I find the people who go see their shows are more into comedy and silliness than music (I know they're talented players, just can't stand their songs personally)... don't forget that The Grateful Dead sold out stadium show after stadium show for almost 30 years... that the numbers have dropped off since Jerry died and Red Rocks is only half full now (for 5 straight days of shows don't forget) is what has me going to their shows again after dropping out during the gate-crashing years (too popular really sucks)

though I whole heartedly agree with what you were saying about being entertaining, as this is every entertainer's job

but you can't sell your dignity for a laugh... people don't leave home and follow comedians around all summer... playing a song with different emotion every night is one thing, there's only so many ways you can tell a joke and it still be funny

(christ, don't get me started on this sort of thing... this post looks like one of canned beats')

[bald guy in a blanket]

Do you really think that anyone says to themself 'let's go see BNL I read in Rolling Stone that their stage show is particularly engaging'

No. But it's about word of mouth. The mouths of the audience. BNL has sold out their shows for years based on people saying incredible things about the show. This was the case for about a year before they broke the radio in the U.S.. Many would argue that this helped cause their radio success. I think we can all agree that being on the radio doesn't have much to do with good music.

They kicked their audience's ass and then people told all their friends.

By the way, please keep in mind that I do not neccesarily prefer BNL to the DEAD musically.

And Paisley, the Grateful Dead sold out stadiums. The talk at the time was "They aren't the best at what they do, they're the only ones at what they do"

This was said by a promoter but backed up by a blown away audience. The current "DEAD", I don't think could make that famous claim. Certainly not even those that seem to be their biggest fans seem to be to energized by them anymore.

Perhaps a better example of the "performance trumping all else" arguement is the current steady rise of the band GUSTER.

Their songs are good, their shows are awesome. As a result, fans have started to follow them from city to city.

These are just some thoughts I've encountered while assesing the notion of performing music.

jef

[paisley]

yeah, again, no offence intended

but have to say that actually the talk (at least in the years when I was being harassed to go see a Dead show) was more like "YOU, need to catch a Dead show. There's nothing like it."... I remember getting pretty hostile at a couple of super friendly guys who said I was "such a Deadhead" back in my punk days, thought they were being sarcastic about loving the Grateful Dead and were calling me a stupid hippie as I sat there tripping at a party

was pretty much all word of mouth from people who'd seen a show and wanted to share with people with open (or openable) minds who'd appreciate it... over 4 or 5 years I had a good 6 or 7 different crowds of rather colorful people try to talk me into catching a show before I eventually caved and went... once you got to a show you found out it was very much a family thing (albeit, a very stoned family)

that all seemed to change in 1990 though, once the television college crowd showed up... then people started saying all sorts of things, a lot of it made up or misunderstood

in either case each band attracts or attracted a strong cult following, for different reasons though... the Dead, as you say, are in their 60s and still keep drawing pretty big crowds because of the family aspect... I loved the shows I caught last year better than any shows I saw after 1990... musically, really good / vibes, great

[edit to add] - (after all that rant I see I read what you were saying about what people said about shows wrong the first time :: disregard a lot of what was said as it repeats what you were saying... just came on here quickly and started writing quickly)

I think you get a fan base by finding your audience, whom you find by playing a lot for a lot of people

consistency in booking will help get people to a promoters shows by the same token

sad thing is is that television preaches that anything except formula bands belongs back in the 60s and 70s and sells attitude like its a brand new thing which makes it tough to get new younger fans to come check something quality out

[SaggyBalls]

if you want a cool alternative to BNL check out the Brothers Creegan. jim and andy creegan...bass and ex-keys of BNL respectively.

that should be the band selling out stadiums. and that makes me realize the intangibility of music. taste isn't somehting that can be easily defined.

how do you appeal to the tqastes and sensibilities of people...or how do you get people to realize that it's okay to like something different? people don't like to feel uncool. how do we make jambands 'cool'?

how do we make quality music 'cool' when all the 'cool' music seems to suck ass most of the time, and when it's not sucking ass, it broke out the spoon and is eating your browneye like it's christmas pudding.

for some reason people like the smell of poo more than patchouli...

[hamilton]

the ginos and ginas don't understand music, they understand songs on the radio. generic bar rock is by far the most popular genre in canada because that's what pacifies the ignorant masses.

you know why? i blame the CRTC's canadian content legislation - more than a third of all songs on canadian radio must be canadian...

Funny - last month, I thought you said reality TV was to blame for people's lack of interest in live music.

[AD]

if you want a cool alternative to BNL check out the Brothers Creegan. jim and andy creegan...bass and ex-keys of BNL respectively.

Andy (he's the keys player right?) lives in Ottawa now (or did) as he's going to teacher's college at UofO. He lived next door to a friend of mine in the Glebe. Nice guy.

AD

[Booche]

"Funny - last month, I thought you said reality TV was to blame for people's lack of interest in live music."

The reason is clearly the deforestation of Brazil.

[hamilton]

"Funny - last month, I thought you said reality TV was to blame for people's lack of interest in live music."

The reason is clearly the deforestation of Brazil.

A lot of Brazilians are ginos and ginas, y'know. I think I see the big picture now. Some kind of conspiracy...

[bald guy in a blanket]

It's okay Hamilton, I'll say it.

I blame a vast right-wing Brazilian conspiracy for the current lack of public interest in live music....and for the oddly persistent popularity of George W. Bush.

There.

That's done.

Any questions?

Jef

[Esau]

I mean I do remember going to the clubs simply because there were bands playing. It didnt matter who it was. Me and friends just went to the places where the bands played. Cover charge or not.

I dont ever go to the bar, simply to 'go to the bar'. Never. Entertainment brings me to the bar. Cover charges are not important. Whats a coupla bucks? Most i've ever paid to get into a bar was 8-10 dollars, and those were some pretty amazing shows. One was actually at your bar. (the night we met :

Its probably been five years or so since i went to the bar, just to go for drinks, when no band was playing...

The entertainment is definately the most important.

Agreed,

If I want just a cold beer I go to the fridge and out on the back deck.I've have never in 18 years of going to bars ever gone just for a beer.Except perhaps right after work or a saturday in the village out in the sun (even that is extremely rare,errr,wait...maybe if I was dating the barmaid or a waitress I may go in,but thats for the free drinks.Even when I was a (more than) regular at the notorious Willy Woggs (crazy biker bar at one time)around 87-88 on the Hamilton mountian,I almost exclusivley went to see live music,mind you it wasn't the same type of scene as now-a-days,mostly cover bands,but the top notch cover bands that toured the US & Canada.

Now-a-days....

No music at the bar.

No need to go.

No Esau.