Deeps Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 (edited) Iranian president quoted to say "Israel must be wiped off the map." This really challenges the peace loving guy in me who thinks that war is always an American money grab and unecessary.What if we were in the radar of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad? I might want the States to talk about the axis of evil. I might want some security that the religious governments of the world wouldn't eventually catapult us into wars under the pretenses they believe to be ordained by Allah in preservation of their Muslim World.What the fuck is Muslim world anyway? Same sun, same world. Co-existence anyone?Yayyy religion.Hands in everyone let's have a cheer. Unless you're not like us that is. Then you're off the map. I know the UN invented Israel and why I am not sure, but it seems to expose that there are many places in the world that need to learn what Canada already knows. Co-Existence is possible, pride is good, excessive nationalism and fanatical religious allegiences are unnecessary and counter productive.I love the place where I live. Edited October 26, 2005 by Guest Topic posted as a question now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Velvet Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Fuck the world. Who needs it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Deeps, let me guess, you're white, have always lived in Canada, from a Christian background...ad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hal Johnson Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Im with Velvet, Fuck it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatpatguy Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 My cat's breath smells like cat food Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomFoolery Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Hey AD,That's more than a slightly condescending response.I understand where you're coming from but why not add something positive to the discussion. It is incredibly frustrating as a passifist to listen to people across the globe blowing each other to bits for reasons that are completely unfathomable to us.I can understand at an academic level where the hatred comes from. I can understand at an academic level how history, international politics, and power brokering has grossly undermined people's ability to live a peaceful life in much of the world.However, I don't feel it. I don't truly understand it to the core of my being.I certainly don't think that it deserves derision to say so.Yup - I'm white. Yes - I've lived a VERY privileged life. No - I've never been subjected to any of the misery that is part of daily life for so many.That doesn't mean that my interpretation of the world is invalid.Blah blah blah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Sorry if THAT is offending... Given the topic at hand I struggle to see how you can be offended by mere words...Anyways, this discussion reminds me of a discussion on religion I heard on the CBC on the weekend... About how people interpret God / Allah / Dieties and their sayings and teachings.. And that the human interpretation will always be wrong because we are interpreting it from the human view. None of us have ever had the 'God' view, so how can we in good faith claim to understand what the real meanings behind things are.Like asking a horse to describe a human, the horse only knows Horse, and can only describe in in Horse view...I know there's serious shit going on in the world in respect to fundamental religious and idealogical differences, I've seen it in person, and I try not to pander to cultures / religions I'm not a part of because I'd be interpreting it from my view, which is about the most absurd thing I could do. I'm white, privileged, lived in Canada my whole life; what right do I have to pass judgement or condemnation on something I have no first-hand experience of?Just a thought.AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Fuck the world. Who needs it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Hate is Hate and Intolerance is Intolerance.If the leaders of the world can't come to this realization and act diplomaticly when they speak to the masses then they deserve to be told to go screw themselves.Hate mongering is no good for anyone.Imagine if in school you were innundated with your Prime Minister's view that all French are useless to us as a people. You and your 20, 000, 000 other classmates across the country would be warped and accept this notion and pass it on through generations.Who'd be the winner there?Christian? - no - Agnostic household. We were taught to love and respect all of our neighbours and that their religion had little to do with their character.I am Canadian/American/Catholic/Prostestant/Italian/English in terms of my back ground.None of this plays into my comments only in that I am living in a country that affords me the opportunity to philosophize on these subjects and try to point out that as I said in my original post that a lot of countries need to come a long way with regard to acceptance and reduction in flag waving bible thumping rhetoric. I am aware of my priviledge and will add that aspect in any other debates of this nature for the sake of being thorough.I'm not saying that my comments will necessarily jump start a change, I only offer them up as a judgement of the need for security in the world and a commentary on the true state of things across the pond. Maybe you already knew....I have blinders on a lot and believe in world leaders, and then I hear this madness being spouted about bouncing people off the planet. Shocked me I guess.The fact is that there are generations of Iranians who grow up with positive views on other cultures, but if the loud mouths have their way those progressive Iranians will also be marginalized and never get to spread the humanitarian ideals that the world needs. I am not going to stand on a line with these people mid you and I guess that is where my hipocrasy kicks in...I just hope in my heart that good will prevail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 I know the UN invented Israel and why I am not sure, Israel is surrounded by 22 Arab countries. The Arab-to-Israeli population ratio is 50:1. Many wars and fights have occured due to the hate both sides have for each other.I think Israel was created to protect Israelis.AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 I'm white, privileged, lived in Canada my whole life; what right do I have to pass judgement or condemnation on something I have no first-hand experience of?I think you at least have the right to an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 OK I'll rephrase: Everybody here is entitled to whatever opinion they want, you just have to realise that it probably comes from no accurate frame of reference. Same goes for my opinions. This whole post is my opinion, as were my other posts. Of course people are entitled to an opinion, however culturally irrelevant it is.AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 This whole post is my opinion, as were my other posts. Of course people are entitled to an opinion, however culturally irrelevant it is.What gives you the right to judge my opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayr Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Unless you have lived over there or know firsthand the situations that are constantly causing turmoil it is, in my opinion nearly impossible to understand. The media is useless, biased and controlled and really gives no solid facts that help anybody to get what is happening. Underneath everything is an agenda that few know (Including me). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davey Boy 2.0 Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 OK I'll rephrase: Everybody here is entitled to whatever opinion they want, you just have to realise that it probably comes from no accurate frame of reference. Same goes for my opinions. This whole post is my opinion, as were my other posts. Of course people are entitled to an opinion, however culturally irrelevant it is.ADI find it hard to argue with this, however at the same time I would draw a parallel your "lack of frame of reference" to someone passing a holdup on the street and not doing anything about it. At what point do you make the judgement call? I certainly wouldn't want to rely on the Government (US or other) to make the call for us. Also, I would propose (and I'm not alone here I'm sure) that the US is a nation which goes to war without any justification for doing so; a nation of decidedly uncivilised fundamentalist religions inextricably entangled with the State, housing an enormous arsenal of nuclear weapons. How are they morally superior to Iran? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badams Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 How are they morally superior to Iran? They have God on their side. Just ask George W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcO Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 what does any of this have to with Bob Weir and Ratdog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 Israel is surrounded by 22 Arab countries. The Arab-to-Israeli population ratio is 50:1. Many wars and fights have occured due to the hate both sides have for each other.I think Israel was created to protect Israelis.ADAgreed. It was founded to protect the Israelis, but on a larger scale I think it is a statement that says we as a world populace believe it is dutiful and just to try to correct the oppression and systematic exile by Christians and Muslims alike in this particular case, but could be applied in other future corrective cases. Israel's inception was a large statement to this effect.Until there is peaceful coexistence there this goal is not met and we as a human race are failing to a degree under this "corrective" pretense.Re: If you haven't lived there then your opinion is useless POV.I don't have to be kicked in the face to realize that someone saying a whole group of people should be kicked in the face is not good for the collective.Canada has a long history of acting successfully as a 3rd unbiased party in conflict situations. It is our very distance that allows us to help facilitate change. That's where I believe it perfectly natural to bring these things up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 what does any of this have to with Bob Weir and Ratdog? I'm not going to Israel or that show anytime soon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deeps Posted October 26, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 How are they morally superior to Iran? Stable government, though faulty, and a society that won't allow for God driven hate to be spouted by their leaders. As many rednecks as there are the place has come a long way with regard to civil rights and fostering humanitarian views.Sure you can say it's shrouded in GWBs money-bucket past and ties to the economic machine, but I don't think he's a racist and I don't think the US would stand for it. The satements by President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad are awful and sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 What gives you the right to judge my opinion?Nothing, I didn't judge your opinion. AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbass Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 (edited) This Iranian leader is piece of crap that I just flushed down the toilet and thats how respected his opinion is. If he had a brain he would realize not to say something like that. Don't fuck with Israel my people, my religion. Sounds like its a war he wants. With good ol' Bush to back us up.I'm not a religious guy at all. I think it causes many problems. But this is out of control blatant hate, why? I don't get it Edited October 26, 2005 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 What gives you the right to judge my opinion?Nothing' date=' I didn't judge your opinion. AD[/quote']Sure you did. You told me it was culturally irrelevant, without even hearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AD Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 So I judged something without hearing it?How does that work? The philosophers on the board will love to hear this one. Or not hear it and judge it...Whatever, we're all right.AD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollie Posted October 26, 2005 Report Share Posted October 26, 2005 So I judged something without hearing it?How does that work? The philosophers on the board will love to hear this one. Or not hear it and judge it...Whatever, we're all right.ADI'm out. I thought I was making sense. Let's continue this sometime over beer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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