State of the......

[scottieking]

Union? Man, I really, really think this should be renamed the state of the empire address. If you read into what GWB is saying, he's not talking to Joe Nebraska, he's laying it down for the whole of the world. "Iran, I'm looking at you Iran!"

2006 elections down there are going to be interesting.

[rubberdinghy]

The State of the Union Address was originally scheduled for Monday night. Jack Bauer made the President change it to Tuesday.

[The Chameleon]

This is waht I think of G.Dub and his facist empire..

[Deeps]

I woke up on Thursday to talk about how Iran continues it's nuclear developments, Hamas' overwhelming victory, and the massive movement of opium from Afghanistan to the rest of the world.

I asked myself if the world is better off if we just sit back and hope it all gets better without doing anything about it. I concluded that though I don't agree with the lack of respect for these cultures Mr Bush's speeches tend to imply in their strategic and branding nature (see Shock and Awe), I have a bigger problem with countries who elect governments steeped in outdated religious dogma, and perpetuate awful view points with regard to the rights of women and social planning. Ohh gawd who is Deeps to say their wrong?....a dude with a sister who doesn't have to cover her entire body for fear of being stoned to death, and a guy who doesn't talk to half of his family because their religious beliefs smothered their love for one another that's who.

The fact is it's not cool to tell the women of your entire culture that they are less important, it's not cool that the leaders of nations call for the wiping off of the map another nation. The Western world has learned about a thing called diplomacy and the virtue of democracy. We fought 2 great wars because we were afraid of the defeat of democracy and saw what happened when we sat back and waited for those silly nazis to stop acting that way. They almost won, remember?

I feel better that the the Taliban is an after thought, that Sadam aint doing his thing anymore and I could give a shit if the Iranian president ends up with a fighter jet wake up call, and yes I do agree that until Hamas steps back there militant "solution" strategies they don't deserve to be recognized as a valid government.

If an entire nation doesn't realize that nothing will get resolved if you keep waving the fucking gun around then maybe someone needs to step the fuck in and tell the people...the voters...about this American evil called democracy and human rights.

It's a fractured plan (this American one in place right now), but it beats the piss out of the one the UN had. Ohh we'll sanction the hell out of the people skim off the top and then become essentially ineffectual, [color:purple]lovely.

In short the UN and the fucked ideals of religious tyrants needed this shake up and to say you think Bush's agenda is 100% wrong, well it seems strange to say the least.

Back to your regularily scheduled US foreign policy bashing.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

There's a lot going on in your comments, Deeps, and I do agree with you that if I had to throw my support behind either form of government, the wonky democracy or the wonky theocracy, I'd go with the former.

(And incidentally, the Taliban isn't a spent force yet, either . And yes, this Hamas business is also extremely troubling.)

That said, if we're not being constantly critical of US (not to speak of our own) foreign policy, deeper bullshit will ensue. The Nazi thing... well, US big business and elements within government loved fascism - they funded them, they helped them in their rearmament, they saw them as the necessary bulwark against the Soviets, and it wasn't always clear how the countries were going to align. A lot of hard work went into tipping the balance away from these regimes, to stem the cash flow, and to generate the right amount of anti-fascist rhetoric (over against the anti-communist rhetoric that had been all over the airwaves and in the newspapers) to begin conclusively to frame them as the enemy.

And as we get reminded constantly, corporations are inherently anti-democratic institutions. We tolerate this, and government comes increasingly to emulate them. Ain't nobody but us going to speak out against that. It's the same thing as where I see the most useful critique of the religious right coming from within its own ranks.

Tangentially to that last point, it's important to keep in mind that fundamentalist groups aren't outdated, per se - they're profoundly modern on a variety of levels.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

A good token of how fucked up (viz., complex) things are -

Israeli troops clash with settlers.

Two right-wing members of the Knesset who were among the protesters were injured in the clashes.

One of the two, Arieh Eldad, spoke by phone to Israel Radio during the protest.

"They are treating people here like Arabs," said Eldad, who suffered a broken arm.

[bouche]

I have a problem with what Deeps just posted.

I woke up on Thursday to talk about

what day is it?

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I have a problem with what Deeps just posted.

I woke up on Thursday to talk about

what day is it?

Maybe he was possessed through the weekend - his performance on Saturday night seemed especially inspired .

I have just run across important news, though:

VATICAN SPOKESMAN CONFIRMS ... PEACE TALKS UNDER WAY BETWEEN ANGELS & DEMONS!

[Birdy]

i think it's a jaded world out there. a ton of history lies beneath the surface of things which the majority of people don't really delve into. cultures on the other side of the world are so fundamentally different than ours that even what we consider to be the greatest of liberties granted to us, could scare the hell out of them.

progression for us is marked by different strides.

since the creation of the "west", there has been this constant attempt to change in the name of democracy and although in general, liberally speaking, i see a common good, i see a common bad too. when i think of a world saddamless, talibanless, i think fuck yeah, but the world in which we seek to create, the walmart nation or whatever isn't much better. we're taking everything that makes these people humble and ripping it out of them and creating a liberally minded people who believe that it is their god given right to do whatever the hell they choose to do. which i hate. i'm sick of 'god-given rights'... i admire the respect these people have for the earth and for their gods and i think if anyone should try to emulate anyone, we should them.

so deeps yah i do agree with you in some respects. i would hate adapting and implementing american foreign policy.. it's a hell of a job and no matter what the outcome, you're bound to be hated by somebody. i think evil doers in the world should be punished accordingly, by an international tribunal (getting somewhat tired of the UN's inefficiency); however, attempting to change societies and institutions and general ways of life to please the western mind and the western ideal, is another story. One that i think we should steer clear of. some battles are best to be fought on their own, to be played out by history and by time itself. to take this on by our own accord is acting god.

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

Wow, 3/4 of his speech is focused on terrorism. I could understand that being the focal point of his address 4 years ago, but, today?? Not sure. I guess you want to impose your endearing qualities I suppose. I love the talk about job stimuli... Fact, the rebuilding of New Orleans is being performed by Mexican foreign workers.. Are you kidding me?? the unemployment rate in the U.S. is way up, the president suggests that they need to create more jobs, and these fucking companies are bringing in foreign workers who do not receive a good wage, nor any sort of benefit... And yes, my favourite quote from Bush's address--"Deep in the American character, there is honor, and it is stronger than cynicism. And many have discovered again that even in tragedy -- especially in tragedy -- God is near." Near to what?

Lets give Harper a majority too, you can never have enough greedy fundamentalists in charge.

Edited February 1, 2006 by Guest

[timouse]

And yes, my favourite quote from Bush's address--"Deep in the American character, there is honor, and it is stronger than cynicism. And many have discovered again that even in tragedy -- especially in tragedy -- God is near." Near to what?

well, bush is an End Times believer, and surrounded by them to boot. maybe god is near ready to come down and kick some ass and to address one of the original points of mr deeps' chronologically hopeful post, the guys perpetrating most of this horror on the world are by definition a fundamentalist regime. more than 70% of americans self identify as strongly christian, and much of the US leadership are full-on christian.

Lord Protect Me From Your Followers.

[Biggest Fan]

I really related to what 'Deeps' had to say.

I do also agree with 'Birdy' in that I do not think anyone needs to be created in our image (USA). One is enough (maybe to much)

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

. To his credit, at least Bush has finally learned the names of some of these countries he wants to convert- er, invade- er, democratise.

Here's a nice points review from the Canadian Press of his SotU address -

Bush skips over complex realities in painting progress on health care, Iraq

[payce-ley]

I just wish the states would stop putting Talibans and Saddams into power then ensuring they stay there for decades in order to further their own self interests... its like they say "suffer under this tyranny we've impossed upon you until its no longer profitable for us then we'll suddenly become morally outraged and bomb the crap out of every poor region in your country" and suddenly they're hero's... seems to me they should be begging forgiveness... they didn't simply look the other way during these regimes, they funded and politically sponsored these regimes, in the name of "democracy"... america's worldwide version of "freedom" seems to be that so long as a country's elected officials turn a dollar for them they're ok, otherwise its war

Edited February 1, 2006 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Yes.

[GWB]

Deeps, I'm really starting to like you. Eyes for an eye that's what I say.

In my defence, I didn't write that address or speeech, whatever you want to call it. Cheney, woke my hung over ass up about 5 minutes before hand, sat me down in front of the camera and told me to read the teleprompters. God, what a dick. I can't wait for the next election. This is the last time I agree to one of Daddy's little favors.

[payce-ley]

far as women being told they're not as important within certain cultures goes... before 1991 when sanctions strangled off most of Iraq's ability to function as a country Iraq was considered the most western-ized country in the middle east and women were encouraged to go to university, become doctors, lawyers, factory workers, etc (which is part of why Bin Laden has always hated Saddam, bin laden being a islamic fundamentalist)... the new Iraqi constitution strips women of many of their basic rights

the biggest problem right now though for iraqi women is American soldiers

[Biggest Fan]

I know I am sounding like an apologist but it is more of a 'devils advocate' than anything else. I agree with 'payce-ley is saying but...

How much of the USA supporting the Talibans and Saddams of the world was due to the madness of the 'cold war' and the legacy there of???

[ggrtrhhrtgg]

well Biggest Fan--- you may have a point there with the Taliban, but from what I know of the situation that put Suddam Hussein into power--it had nothing really to do with the cold war. Not only did they put him into power, but in Bush's address, he mentions the fact that Saddam used biological weapons in conflict...which was during another famous Republican's watch, ol Ronnie Reagan, and yep, you guessed it, old George senior didn't blink an eye in his v.p. seat. The axis of evil was alright when they were doin those evil things evil people do...

[Biggest Fan]

It seems to me that the Saddam thing was a result of the fall of the 'Shah of Iran' and our idiotic paranoia (cold war legacy) that an aspect of the'east' (relgious fanaticism) was going to take over the world???

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

It seems to me that the Saddam thing was a result of the fall of the 'Shah of Iran' and our idiotic paranoia (cold war legacy) that an aspect of the'east' (relgious fanaticism) was going to take over the world???

Yes - which in turn was brought about through a CIA-engineered coup in the 1950s that had displaced the democratically-elected government of Iran at the bidding of Big Oil.

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

the biggest problem right now though for iraqi women is American soldiers

No doubt. There have also been some stories in the news lately of wives of suspected militants in Iraq being arrested in the middle of the night and thrown in jail to use as leverage against their husbands - maybe under some discrete "people deserve the people they marry" clause in the US Army manual.

[hamilton]

I asked myself if the world is better off if we just sit back and hope it all gets better without doing anything about it. I concluded that though I don't agree with the lack of respect for these cultures Mr Bush's speeches tend to imply in their strategic and branding nature (see Shock and Awe), I have a bigger problem with countries who elect governments steeped in outdated religious dogma, and perpetuate awful view points with regard to the rights of women and social planning. Ohh gawd who is Deeps to say their wrong?....a dude with a sister who doesn't have to cover her entire body for fear of being stoned to death, and a guy who doesn't talk to half of his family because their religious beliefs smothered their love for one another that's who.

Yes, but that's happening in dozens of countries all over the world. I'll believe that Bush is benevolently spreading democracy through warfare the day that the US invades a nation that is repressing its women but isn't located in a geo-politically and/or oil-rich region of the world. Right now, it seems that they are rather selective about which particular regimes need changing.

Edited February 2, 2006 by Guest
Because sometimes, leaving out one letter can change the entire meaning of a sentence

[Biggest Fan]

I am getting the feeling that you think we have a political history of 'self-serving' behavior.

[Biggest Fan]

I was reading how Exxon (or one of the others) had made more money last year than any other year in Its history. If there was one thing that I could send to the fiery pits of H@LL it would be 'OIL'.