Angry people

[Im going home Donny]

This is all such surface bullshit.

communication, communication, communication.

[SmoothedShredder]

Is there an Iranian Jamband site?

[bradm]

Is there an Iranian Jamband site?

The only connection between "Iran" and "jamband" that I know of is this.

Aloha,

Brad

[SmoothedShredder]

Yikes... it's that far eh?

[Biggest Fan]

Lot of good stuff as per usual.

I guess much like what StaggerLee was saying it is hard to understand a reaction when you are on the outside looking in. It reminds me of how France exploded with anger and the only thing I could say was where was all that coming from???

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Glad I got out of the house today!

Thanks for posting those actual cartoons, CyberHippie and Deeps, so we know what it is we're actually talking about. I've been trying to figure out the thousand and one ways that these cartoons might and have been interpreted in the Muslim world. It keeps occurring to me that the ones who are the most prepared to get violent about it are the ones most lacking anything like a sense of irony (which seems a consistent feature for fundamentalists of any stripe). Sure, they can be pissed off about the lack of sensitivity of the Danish artists (and publishers) involved - I certainly am - but the simplicity of their understanding of the artists' intent I find really unfortunate.

You don't have to adopt Muslim theology to have respect for Muhammad, given the remarkable things he accomplished in his lifetime, in the same way that Jesus can be respected for his perennial wisdom without needing to assert any divine status for him. I suspect that the cartoonists missed that elementary respect. I think it might be possible that they were trying to push some sort of ironic point, in the same way, say, you could draw a picture of Jesus in a KKK outfit brandishing a Glock in one hand and a can of Pringles in the other to make a certain point. Given what precious little Westerners know about Islam in general and Muhammad in particular, though, I think they were acting out of a position of sheer stupidity.

Ironing is dead. Fight tearism everywhere.

[Birdy]

i honestly hope canadian media outlets don't pick up and print this stuff. in my personal experience, outrage of any kind doesn't really do any good rather only serves to boil temperatures and increase blood pressures. instead i hope we adopt a mindframe of yes, the censorship point has been made, the 2 cents given, and lets move on. there's no point in continuing to reprint stupid cartoons just to drive the nail home. the nail is in.

[hamilton]

You don't have to adopt Muslim theology to have respect for Muhammad, given the remarkable things he accomplished in his lifetime, in the same way that Jesus can be respected for his perennial wisdom without needing to assert any divine status for him. I suspect that the cartoonists missed that elementary respect. I think it might be possible that they were trying to push some sort of ironic point, in the same way, say, you could draw a picture of Jesus in a KKK outfit brandishing a Glock in one hand and a can of Pringles in the other to make a certain point. Given what precious little Westerners know about Islam in general and Muhammad in particular, though, I think they were acting out of a position of sheer stupidity.

I think the catalyst for all of this was the murder of Theo van Gogh, wasn't it? He was the Dutch fimmaker who was murdered by an Islamic fundamentalist for making a film that was critical of the treatment of women in many Muslim nations. The paper's point ultimately is that no one should have to live in fear for their lives just becuase they criticized something.

Of course, that doesn't excuse publishing deliberately inflammatory cartoons, either. It's one thing to be intelligently critical, and quite another to stir up shit.

[StaggerLee]

Something that always bothers me is the way these things get reported and recorded in history. Other people's struggles are often seen as necessary or positive even when violence is used as a means in the movement. Think of Rodney King or the IRA for example.

I never said anything like this. I loathe the IRA. And I don't know what positive came out of the Rodney King riots.

I am really' date=' really repulsed by violence.

[/quote']

My comments weren't directed at you Ollie, just some general thoughts. I certianly didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

As for the IRA and Rodney King, my point was not that the violence was justified, but that often people look at situations like those and say "well the violence was terrible, but at least it brought the issue to world attention and we can focus on the underlying causes," or something to that effect. Many times I heard the Rodney King riots refered to as "a wake-up call for America." I just don't see that happening when Muslims are involved. The explanation for Muslim protest most commonly offered seems to be "Muslims are violent people," or if one digs a little deeper it's because "Muslims hate Jews." I think there's a lot more to it and I don't see the West reaching out to understand Muslim perspectives.

The paper's point ultimately is that no one should have to live in fear for their lives just becuase they criticized something.

This is certainly a valid point and an idea worth promoting, but it is a culturally biased notion. I spent four months living in a Muslim community in Ghana this year. One of the things I noticed very early in my time there was the lack of critical thinking in general, and especially towards certain subjects. There are many reasons for this; education differences where people are not exposed to critical writing or encouraged to think critically as we are in the West, cultural differences where family and social interactions are shaped by a much more rigid heirarchy in which criticism is ignored or simply not permitted, governance differences where criticism is suppressed or punished, religious differences where people are asked to "submit to God" rather than "celebrate" God as most Christians do, etc. I certainly think that the freedom to criticize is important and that this freedom should be promoted in both Muslim and non-Muslim cultures, but it's important to note that critical thinking is a defining characteristic of Western societies, and not necessarily as entrenched in other cultures. I'm not suggesting that Muslims be exempted from criticism, and nothing excuses the threat of violence to suppress criticism, but I think Westerners could show a little more sensitivity than those cartoons did when dishing it out.

[SevenSeasJim]

(CNN) -- An Iranian newspaper says it is going to hold a competition for cartoons on the Holocaust to test whether the West will apply the same principles of freedom of expression to the Nazi genocide against Jews as it did to the caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed, The Associated Press reports.

Entire Story

[ollie]

My comments weren't directed at you Ollie, just some general thoughts. I certianly didn't mean to put words in your mouth.

Sorry to imply that, I just took that on as someone opposed to the violence in the protests who didn't like the associated implications about the IRA and Rodney King.

[timouse]

I think it might be possible that they were trying to push some sort of ironic point, in the same way, say, you could draw a picture of Jesus in a KKK outfit brandishing a Glock in one hand and a can of Pringles in the other to make a certain point.

only if he's behind the wheel of a humvee...or leaping through the air showing off his combat boots.

reminds me of naomi klein's story about paul bremmer. when he was installed in iraq (as a civilian interim leader) he kept appearing in public in army dress. his handlers thought that it sent the wrong message, so they changed his outfit to a Brooks Brothers navy suit and full on army boots...business dress for the new milennium

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

.

And from the news today.... Sometimes the people in my discipline are ones I really admire, and sometimes they're just jackasses. I mean, come on, there's freedom of speech, and then there's self-censorship because you have to realise you don't know the whole picture. Just because you're able to piss people off doesn't mean you're getting to get them to think more deeply or clearly.

PEI student paper publishes cartoons of Prophet.

Meanwhile, it's nice to see evangelicals beginning to question the ethics of how this war they've been supporting is actually being run.

Front Line Dilemma: Christians in intelligence services are conflicted over the use of torture.

(Pity it's actually giving them so much conflict, mind you, but it is a start.)

[Edit to add:]

And in the "Hey, look, one person can make a difference!" department,

Islamic scholar who disseminated cartoons of the Prophet speaks out.

The Danish Islamic scholar who brought cartoons depicting the Prophet Muhammad to the attention of Muslim leaders around the world says he was only trying to boost his campaign to get an apology from the Danish newspaper that first published them.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Guest

[nattyMatty]

it up set me when i herd about this....