Pat Metheny on Kenny G - or rather verbally beating on Kenny G

[Deeps]

Question:

Pat, could you tell us your opinion about Kenny G - it

appears you were quoted as being less than enthusiastic

about him and his music. I would say that most of the

serious music listeners in the world would not find your

opinion surprising or unlikely - but you were vocal about it

for the first time. You are generally supportive of other

musicians it seems.

Pat's Answer:

Kenny G is not a musician I really had much of an opinion

about at all until recently. There was not much about the

way he played that interested me one way or the other

either live or on records.

I first heard him a number of years ago playing as a sideman

with Jeff Lorber when they opened a concert for my band. My

impression was that he was someone who had spent a fair

amount of time listening to the more pop oriented sax

players of that time, like Grover Washington or David

Sanborn, but was not really an advanced player, even in

that style. He had major rhythmic problems and his harmonic

and melodic vocabulary was extremely limited, mostly to

pentatonic based and blues-lick derived patterns, and he

basically exhibited only a rudimentary understanding of how

to function as a professional soloist in an ensemble -

Lorber was basically playing him off the bandstand in terms

of actual music.

But he did show a knack for connecting to the basest

impulses of the large crowd by deploying his two or three

most effective licks (holding long notes and playing fast

runs - never mind that there were lots of harmonic clams in

them) at the key moments to elicit a powerful crowd reaction

(over and over again). The other main thing I noticed was

that he also, as he does to this day, played horribly out

of tune - consistently sharp.

Of course, I am aware of what he has played since, the

success it has had, and the controversy that has surrounded

him among musicians and serious listeners. This controversy

seems to be largely fueled by the fact that he sells an

enormous amount of records while not being anywhere near a

really great player in relation to the standards that have

been set on his instrument over the past sixty or seventy

years. And honestly, there is no small amount of envy

involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players

doing so well financially, especially when so many of them

who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in

general have trouble just making a living. There must be

hundreds, if not thousands of sax players around the world

who are simply better improvising musicians than Kenny G on

his chosen instruments. It would really surprise me if even

he disagreed with that statement.

Having said that, it has gotten me to thinking lately why so

many jazz musicians (myself included, given the right

"bait" of a question, as I will explain later) and

audiences have gone so far as to say that what he is

playing is not even jazz at all. Stepping back for a minute,

if we examine the way he plays, especially if one can

remove the actual improvising from the often mundane

background environment that it is delivered in, we see that

his saxophone style is in fact clearly in the tradition of

the kind of playing that most reasonably objective

listeners WOULD normally quantify as being jazz. It's just

that as jazz or even as music in a general sense, with

these standards in mind, it is simply not up to the level of

playing that we historically associate with professional

improvising musicians. So, lately I have been advocating

that we go ahead and just include it under the word jazz -

since pretty much of the rest of the world OUTSIDE of the

jazz community does anyway - and let the chips fall where

they may.

And after all, why he should be judged by any other standard

, why he should be exempt from that that all other serious

musicians on his instrument are judged by if they attempt

to use their abilities in an improvisational context

playing with a rhythm section as he does? He SHOULD be

compared to John Coltrane or Wayne Shorter, for instance,

on his abilities (or lack thereof) to play the soprano

saxophone and his success (or lack thereof) at finding a

way to deploy that instrument in an ensemble in order to

accurately gauge his abilities and put them in the context

of his instrument's legacy and potential.

As a composer of even eighth note based music, he SHOULD be

compared to Herbie Hancock, Horace Silver or even Grover

Washington. Suffice it to say, on all above counts, at this

point in his development, he wouldn't fare well.

But, like I said at the top, this relatively benign view was

all "until recently".

Not long ago, Kenny G put out a recording where he

overdubbed himself on top of a 30+ year old Louis Armstrong

record, the track "What a Wonderful World". With this

single move, Kenny G became one of the few people on earth

I can say that I really can't use at all - as a man, for his

incredible arrogance to even consider such a thing, and as

a musician, for presuming to share the stage with the

single most important figure in our music.

This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of

overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead

performers - was weird when Natalie Cole did it with her

dad on "Unforgettable" a few years ago, but it was her dad.

When Tony Bennett did it with Billie Holiday it was bizarre,

but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the

20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic

accomplishment. When Larry Coryell presumed to overdub

himself on top of a Wes Montgomery track, I lost a lot of

the respect that I ever had for him - and I have to

seriously question the fact that I did have respect for

someone who could turn out to have such unbelievably bad

taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal

heroes.

But when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to

defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest

jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass,

jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out,

fucked up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks

(even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I

would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through

his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision

to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, shit all

over the graves of all the musicians past and present who

have risked their lives by going out there on the road for

years and years developing their own music inspired by the

standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every

single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a

musician. By disrespecting Louis, his legacy and by default

, everyone who has ever tried to do something positive with

improvised music and what it can be, Kenny G has created a

new low point in modern culture - something that we all

should be totally embarrassed about - and afraid of. We

ignore this, "let it slide", at our own peril.

His callous disregard for the larger issues of what this

crass gesture implies is exacerbated by the fact that the

only reason he possibly have for doing something this

inherently wrong (on both human and musical terms) was for

the record sales and the money it would bring.

Since that record came out - in protest, as insignificant as

it may be, I encourage everyone to boycott Kenny G

recordings, concerts and anything he is associated with. If

asked about Kenny G, I will diss him and his music with the

same passion that is in evidence in this little essay.

Normally, I feel that musicians all have a hard enough time,

regardless of their level, just trying to play good and

don't really benefit from public criticism, particularly

from their fellow players. but, this is different.

There ARE some things that are sacred - and amongst any

musician that has ever attempted to address jazz at even

the most basic of levels, Louis Armstrong and his music is

hallowed ground. To ignore this trespass is to agree that

NOTHING any musician has attempted to do with their life in

music has any intrinsic value - and I refuse to do that. (I

am also amazed that there HASN'T already been an outcry

against this among music critics - where ARE they on

this??!?!?!?!, magazines, etc.). Everything I said here

is exactly the same as what I would say to Gorelick if I

ever saw him in person. and if I ever DO see him anywhere,

at any function - he WILL get a piece of my mind and (maybe

a guitar wrapped around his head.)

[bouche]

I read this a few years ago. Was this real or what?

[\/\/illy]

But when Kenny G decided that it was appropriate for him to defile the music of the man who is probably the greatest jazz musician that has ever lived by spewing his lame-ass, jive, pseudo bluesy, out-of-tune, noodling, wimped out, fuÇked up playing all over one of the great Louis's tracks (even one of his lesser ones), he did something that I would not have imagined possible. He, in one move, through his unbelievably pretentious and calloused musical decision to embark on this most cynical of musical paths, sh!t all over the graves of all the musicians past and present who have risked their lives by going out there on the road for years and years developing their own music inspired by the standards of grace that Louis Armstrong brought to every single note he played over an amazing lifetime as a musician.

Beautiful!

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

Yup; I thought Pat himself was getting a bit stuck-up and wanky with this dissing of another musician until I read about that bit of sacrilege. Overlaying yourself on top of anything Armstrong recorded, let alone What a Wonderful World, is just obscene.

[Pablo Sanchez]

And honestly, there is no small amount of envy involved from musicians who see one of their fellow players doing so well financially, especially when so many of them who are far superior as improvisors and musicians in

general have trouble just making a living.

Boo fucking hoo Pat. For the most part it is certainly not the best players making the money. Just ask Alan Holdsworth what he thinks of Pat Metheny.

[AWeeJig]

I also read this a while back and got quite a laugh out of it actually. Even if it isn't true it's still a worthwhile read.

Besides, you shouldn't let the truth get in the way of a good laugh. Take the Richard Gere/Hamster incident.

[Esau]

This type of musical necrophilia - the technique of

overdubbing on the preexisting tracks of already dead

performers - was weird when Natalie Cole did it with her

dad on "Unforgettable" a few years ago, but it was her dad.

When Tony Bennett did it with Billie Holiday it was bizarre,

but we are talking about two of the greatest singers of the

20th century who were on roughly the same level of artistic

accomplishment. When Larry Coryell presumed to overdub

himself on top of a Wes Montgomery track, I lost a lot of

the respect that I ever had for him - and I have to

seriously question the fact that I did have respect for

someone who could turn out to have such unbelievably bad

taste and be that disrespectful to one of my personal

heroes.

I swear I seen Colin James pull this off also, pretty sure it was some prominent blues musician, but fortunatley, I can't remember with who.

[Esau]

Oh, I forgot to post this also...

I read this a few years ago. Was this real or what?

I can't say for sure if it is real, but, (for what its worth) VH1's website claim Pat has "Declared War" on Kenny G.

They provide a link to his website also.

(June 14 2000)Metheny said on his Web site that he told the kids "not to get confused by the sometimes overwhelming volume of music that falls under the jazz umbrella ... I went on to say that I think, for instance, 'Kenny G plays the dumbest music on the planet' - something that all 8- to 11-year [old] kids on the planet already intrinsically know."

http://www.vh1.com/artists/news/1436591/06142000/g_kenny.jhtml

[zero]

I broke this one years ago back when northernheads was still around as schlock as it was.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

pat matheny and his sissy smooth jazz can suck my ass.

[mattm]

Since that record came out - in protest, as insignificant as

it may be, I encourage everyone to boycott Kenny G

recordings, concerts and anything he is associated with. If

asked about Kenny G, I will diss him and his music with the

same passion that is in evidence in this little essay.

Cool, I've boycotted him my whole life and don't really have any plans to change that now.

[dimafleck: the living legend.]

whatever,

in the grand scheme of things,

pat metheny is a weird looking music snob that spent a lifetime making music for music snobs. His fans are mostly psycologists that live in the burbs and think they know somthing about jazz and say things like "that was the most tasteful solo i've ever heard".

kenny g however, has slept with a bunch of super models and has discovered how to make a room full of beautiful women cream their panties while he plays the sax (the sexiest instrument of them all).

kenny g wins.

Edited March 3, 2006 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

That's hilarious .

Thanks for putting it that way. It seems we have a case of a total wanker vs. a total slut. I don't know if we have a winner, given the disparity of categories, but, in the end, at least we have more clearly defined categories .

[Jaimoe]

I've been a casual fan of Pat's since my uncle turned me on to Offramp in the early 80's. However, every time Metheny uses a vocalist in his songs or plugs into a synclaviar, Kenny G comes to mind.

[The Chameleon]

Way to go Pat, sock it to Kenny G's lame smooth ass.

Altho I agree, some of Metheny's chorused out recording can venture into the too smooth to be good catagory. And unless we're tlaking yacht Rock too smooth is a bad thing.

Funny story: In my second year of University studying Jazz at YorkU, we had to choose a jazz tune to transcribe. So the teacher went around the class and us to call out what tune we chose for approval. When it came to this one dude (newer immigrant guy, who hopefully knew no better), he said proudly "Kenny G- Breahless"...A hush filled the classroom and the teahcer said "That's not acceptable, pick again, that's not jazz!" and the guys was like "but..but..but". Theacher: "I'll explain the Kenny G factor to you later, it's one jazz's dark little secrets, like getting herpes with a one night stand."

Absolute gold. I laughed so hard I cried!

Edited March 3, 2006 by Guest

[Dr_Evil_Mouse]

I've been a casual fan of Pat's since my uncle turned me on to Offramp in the early 80's. However, every time Metheny uses a vocalist in his songs or plugs into a synclaviar, Kenny G comes to mind.

! Yes, Pat's cheese factor can get a little intense sometimes; this has always kept me from being a full-on fan, despite my respect for a lot of his music (tunes like "Are You Going with Me" and "Third Wind" still blow my mind).